Embracing Truth and Living Authentically | with Tori Gordon

Michael: Hey, what's up Unbroken Nation? Hope you're doing well wherever you are in the world today. I'm very excited for today's episode with one of my very close friends, homies and compadres Tori Gordon up.

Tori: Thanks for having me.

Michael: How are you?

Tori: I'm good. Happy to be here.

Michael: Good, me too, happy to have you here. It's been a long time coming.

Tori: Yes, it has.

Michael: Yes. We've had the pleasure of knowing each other for a couple of years now. And one of the things that I think is so fascinating about you and what you do is just your ability to face adversity in ways that I think, cripple most people. Obviously, I know it's impacted you, certain things we're gonna talk about today in certain ways. But before we jump into all that and we talk about your life and your story and your journey what's something I need to know about your past to understand who you are today?

Tori: Can dive right in to the deep end. What is something you need to know about me and my past to understand who I am? I think, fundamentally I am someone who sees life as school, and I am somebody who like really believes that everything is l, like life is always speaking to me and that there's something for me to learn. And so my past has been a byproduct of learning a lot of lessons, some the hard way. I grew up in a amazing family, both of my parents were educators, teachers, so I think from a really young age, I learned the importance and the value of knowledge and wisdom and the difference in knowledge and wisdom, knowledge being something you, understand logically, you can talk about, you can theorize, you can analyze you can regurgitate. And then wisdom being the embodied experience of that thing, having actually lived it, gone through it, and so I think who I am today as a byproduct of essentially embodying the wisdom of the lessons that my life has taught me, and through a lot of those lessons, it's looked like a lot of grief and pain and reconciling and coming terms with the pain and the adversity that I've experienced and extracting the lessons from that. And yeah, I think fundamentally I'm just somebody who is always looking for growth and looking for a deeper why about who I am and how I fit into the world and what my place is in it, and ultimately how I can enjoy my time here.

Michael: Who are you?

Tori: Who am I? I am somebody who loves to learn and has a really big heart, almost like a bleeding heart for humanity and for people that are suffering. I am a curious learner, I am an entrepreneur, I'm a sister, I'm a daughter, I'm hopefully a friend that's someone that's super loyal and committed to just knowing myself first and loving myself so that I have something to offer everybody else. I'm so much more than the labels, that I've, carried throughout my life. But essentially I'm a spiritual being, having a very human experience and trying to integrate the truth of who I am with this I identity and ego and personality of who I think I am, right, and trying to come back to the truth, yeah of that.

Michael: Yeah. So often people introduce me on stages or podcasts or in person, even this happened the way he's a bestselling author and he has this giant podcast and this and that, and I'm like, that's barely any part of who I am. That's the accolades that come through, maybe a lot of suffering, maybe a lot of lessons that are in the hard way. But it's not particularly ever been this thing where it is about those, elements of my life.

Tori: Yeah, I think the last thing that comes to mind when you say, who am I is like listing off the things that I've done, yeah. Or like being a podcast host or a coach or a speaker. Those things describe aspects of what I do, but not necessarily who I am, who I be, yeah.

Michael: Yeah. And I'm with you on the spiritual being thing. It took me a long time to get to that because I spent most of my life, I would say the vast majority now heading into, late thirties most of my life, just being mad at the world, being like , why me? How dare you? This keeps happening, what have I done? Blaming God's spirit, universe, mother nature, looking at life through this, these glasses of like, why do these people get this and I don't, and while our lives and our childhoods are very different, we both have experienced a tremendous amount of suffering of loss, of pain. And I think that, that plants these seeds in you, that build gigantic walls that put you in this place where it's, I don't wanna say impossible to connect, but the process of getting there is, I think, a lot longer road than most people, and I know that you've experienced some pretty significant loss in your life. What have you learned about that? Yeah, like loss while being a spiritual being.

Tori: Yeah. So this has been a process of integrating and learning about loss and grief and what my ego and my personality and the Tori, that feels like a victim experiences loss. It's through that victim mentality of like self-pity and what this shouldn't have happened. And the cards are stacked against me. For those that don't know about my background, I lost the majority of my family, including my mom, my sister, all three grandparents and uncle in a short amount of time, and that was, it was easy to look at my life and think what you thought, it shouldn't be this way, this is wrong, this is bad, and I don't want this. And to live in the resistance to life and what truly was like the facts of the circumstances that I was in that I didn't necessarily choose. And I know that's, your story too. Some of the things that you've experienced and the suffering you've gone through was not your choice or self-inflicted in any way, but as a spiritual being, what I've come to understand is loss is in some ways very real, but in some ways not I don't think I've lost my family, I don't experience them in the same way, I used to up close. I can't sit here and have a conversation with them and feel them and touch them and hug them, but they're not lost, they're not looking for their way around, and all, my experience of them as a soul, as a being has just changed. So I think as I've learned to step away and out of the fear of loss, the fear of not having, the fear of being alone and towards love, I remember that I'm actually connected to all that is. They aren't, I'm not separate from love, I'm not separate from them. And when I want to, I can connect to their essence, I can remember through memories, I can, even if I wanted to have a conversation on some level, I could. So I think part of, for me, loss is about learning to let go of the need to hold on and attach to something and it has to stay like this in this form forever and embrace the changing nature of life. Yeah, all the time. If I can be in sync and in rhythm with life, I understand that life is always changing. And so I've really have this dance of like acceptance verse resistance and like wanting to change things, verse embracing the change that life has given me.

Michael: Yeah. And if you hold onto that too tightly, that becomes your identity. Where suddenly now you're the person who just loses everything, and then that reflects in your friendships and your relationships and your money and your career and your happiness and your health. And then you're down this path where you're like, yep, this is just my life.

Tori: Because I can see it through the lens of loss, like I've lost the people that I love. I lose the people that I love, that used to be a story that I had. The people that I love aren't there when I need them. I could see it through the lens of loss. I could, but I could also see it through the lens of gratitude in everything I've gained from those experiences, the wisdom, the understanding, the reprioritization of everything that's meaningful and important, I gained that, from those losses.

Michael: What's something that you gained in that about you? And who you are?

Tori: That my presence is my power. Like my, the fact that I woke up today and the fact that I'm here and that I can be in this moment with someone is like what connects me to the source of creation. That I can create whatever I want to create through intention, through presence, through being able to master my mind and my attention, my time I've learned that I am the creator of my suffering and of my bliss, and I am responsible for what I do with my time and my energy and my attention.

Michael: Yeah. That's a hard path to walk though, when it's easier to just not.

Tori: It's easier to live and looking for everyone else to be responsible for your results and your outcomes and your pain. And say it's your fault God or it's your fault system, it's your fault government, it's your fault and ex partner, to outsource that and say, look at externally for the reason and the cause and, but one of the things I've learned about myself is I am always at the level of cause in my life.

Michael: Yeah. It's always your fault and it has to be your fault. And look, I always get pushed back on this. And I've been canceled a couple of times over the years for really in a steadfast way holding onto this concept and looking at life and going, if your life sucks, it's your fault, go look in the mirror. And it's not to be a jerk, I promise you it's not, it's just because there's freedom in it. That's the thing I don't think people actually recognize. It's like when I sit here and I say, it's your fault that your life sucks and you're 37 years old and you have nothing to show for it other than massive debt and being overweight and in a relationship, you hate working a job that you can't stand in poor health with no future in front of you. I go, bro, you're the one who wakes up every morning and just steps back into that and chooses it, and it's difficult because I was actually thinking about this literally just the other day because I was having a conversation with one of my very close friends, and he was telling me about volunteering. I was like, actually it's been a little bit since I've went and volunteered, I'm gonna go volunteer, and so I go and I join him, this was Tuesday night. We go and join him, we go to the Las Vegas Rescue Mission and he and I in a group of, I dunno, there's probably 20 people served 450 meals in an hour, one hour. And the first tray of food I sat down was in front of this little girl. And her two sisters next to her and her mom, and you could look at her mom, and her mom was clearly addicted to something. Because I know that look, 'cause I saw it on my mom's face a million times. And I sat this tray in front of this little girl and the huge fucking smile on her face destroyed me. Not necessarily in a bad way, but in this way where I was like, here we are complaining about so much of our life when all this child wants this food. And we look at it and we go, that child has zero control, none over what's happening? 'Cause they're fucking four, and their mother is setting them up for catastrophic failure, and I've been down that path, I've eaten in those dining halls, I've been with my brothers wondering where our next meal come from, living in God knows where, and you look at it in retrospect and in hindsight, and I go back to those moments, I go, you're not responsible for that shit. Like even with loss. Like it's not, you're, it's not on you. It's not, but you're fucking 24 now, you're 36, you're 52. It's like you're not a child anymore. And I think that's such a hard thing for people to wrap them around, because we live in, and I wrote a book called Eight Steps to Healing Your Inner Child. I understand this whole inner child concept and conversation we're having, but it's like at one point you have to look at your life and become the hero of your own story. What was the pivotal turning point for you?

Tori: I just was living with so much friction and like tension and resentment and like dis-ease in ev in my work and my relationships and my health and all these aspects of my life. And I just realized how much I looked at life and thought it shouldn't be this way and I want it to be different, but I was looking outward to change it instead of inward.

Michael: And what was that outward? Was it money and cars and clothes?

Tori: Yeah, definitely like relationships. I was living in a penthouse apartment, like dating a major league baseball player, living this. What I thought was the life that was gonna bring me the feeling of fulfillment and joy and happiness that I was craving and connection, only to find out that I was more depressed and more miserable than I'd ever been because it. Wherever you go, there you are, you take all of your baggage with you. And so it was, there was a moment, on, I remember I hadn't gone outside in 10 days and I was living in San Diego at the time in this beautiful apartment that overlooked the bay or yeah, the bay there, and I walk outside and I feel the sun hit my face and I immediately start to cry. And it's one of those, I was like, something's not right here. I shouldn't, I look at my life. So I tried to orchestrate the perfect life on the outside. I tried to work to make it all look okay so that I could feel okay, but I didn't, and that's why now I'm on a mission to build a life that feels as good as it looks, because it doesn't matter what you have or how hot you are, what's in your bank account or what car you drive if you internally are in at war with yourself. And so in order to have peace in my life, I had to stop being at war with my life and with myself and with my circumstances. And to your point earlier about everything is your fault. It's the most empowering place you can be, because if I created this, then I can create something different. And otherwise you are always like, depending on your, like other people and your circumstances to bring you peace. And the moment you lose the job or the moment you break up or the moment that your car gets whatever wrecked, your peace goes out the window. So it's like how can I source that peace from within so that despite my circumstances, I can be okay, what was the war? With what was it? Was the war with my own thinking and the stories that I was telling myself about why things were the way they were.

Michael: Was that, I'm gonna go a little deeper, was that embedded in you? Because like when I, what I think about it, growing up in the environment that I did, and obviously everyone who's listening to this show knows, I'm not gonna go into detail, but, being a homeless drug addict at 12 years old and running the streets and getting adopted by a psychotic grandmother, like it plants these fucking seeds in your head. About worth about validation, about what success looks like, were, did you create that narrative for yourself?

Tori: I think I picked up on it from my parents, that struggle was a requirement.

Michael: What did that look like?

Tori: It meant creating, which I didn't realize I was doing. But I was participating in the creation of my own suffering by the, my perspective, the stories I told myself, the types of people I spent my time around. The just because my parents, although they gave me so much, they really struggled in ways, like they worked three jobs to put food on the table to make sure that we had what we needed. So although we were doing okay externally, internally, there was a lot happening, like it was a massive like undertaking and stressful environment that they were internally living in order to keep the peace in the external, and so I think I learned that on so many levels, even in my business, even at work, that I had these belief systems that like, it has to be hard, life has to be hard, for it to be meaningful or for it to be, for you to be worthy of the good that you get, and if you don't suffer, you don't deserve it.

Michael: And then if you get the good, then you're like, oh shit. Now the other shoe's gonna drop. And so the second it gets good, you go looking for the bad. It's funny, and that's the cycle, and that is the cycle, and then you're trapped in it and suddenly you're looking at your life and you're like, I have everything everyone told me makes you happy. I got the Cadillac, I'm dating this super hot chick, I got the best condo in town, a lot of money in shoes in the closet. And I'm putting a gun in my mouth, there's a fucking disconnect here. But yet we're told this. And I think, look, and I know everybody says this and I'm not trying to beat the dead horse of reality, but all we ever hear right now is everybody's on social media is posturing, I'm like, fine. What the fuck does that have to do with you? But what happens is subconsciously inadvertently those ideals, they start getting cemented into your brain and then you're like, wait a second, I'm not fit enough, my girlfriend's not hot enough, my boyfriend's not hot enough, my car's not fast enough, my bank account's not big enough. And now you're in this war like you were talking about.

Tori: It's the grass is always greener.

Michael: But it's not.

Tori: Mentality of thinking that I need that thing now and I'm never satisfied with where I am. Okay.

Michael: So then where do you get to the place of contentment slash satisfaction?

Tori: Satisfaction.

Michael: Thank you. Yes. And where do you get to that place where it's those, but also you're still driving forward? Driving?

Tori: Yes. I'm fully committed to creating the, be like, having what I want. And I'm unattached to having it, meaning one of, one of my mentors and teachers taught me even in like this idea of, can I be with this thing that I'm experiencing, these feelings, these emotions, this house that I'm living in, can I be with it and not make it wrong? Not make it right, not make it mean more than it is, it's can I just allow it to, can I exist with it? Coexist with it in a neutral way, and what we do is we have circumstance and then we place meaning and story on top of it, and we call it right and wrong and good and bad, or not enough, or I need more, and it's so it's this dance between being settled and grounded and okay with where you are. And also creating a life with intention and continuing to move towards what lights me up, what makes me come alive, what makes me feel more of who I am, not the pursuit of just more, the more is the more of myself, right? It's not more necessarily money, it's how do I become more of who I am and then the money comes. And in the process, can I be okay with where, like the me that's here right now? And then I'm also in the pursuit of being more me, more me. And I know you talk about, what it means to be unbroken. It's part of it is just like reclaiming all of these parts of myself that don't think I'm enough, that think I need more to be happy, that aren't, that are living in like just the constant pursuit of desire and pleasure. I watched this Alan Watts after school video on YouTube called What Happens When You Only Pursue Pleasure? And it's fascinating, I encourage anybody to watch it. But spoiler alert, he basically says if you pursue pleasure and it's just like the pursuit of more, then ultimately it leads you to the pursuit of pain because pleasure isn't enough, and now it becomes like tor like it's, tormented. And like even the people that were like Romans that had everything the most, the beautiful women the, like all of the wine, all of the luxurious things. It's then what they found pleasure in was watching the women get eaten alive by, lions. And now it's the pursuit of pain. And then it's okay, what do we really asking the question? What do we want? What do we really want? And what he says is like, what we want is control. We wanna control our lives, but do we really, 'cause do we want, now we're saying we wanna be God because how much power do you really want? Okay, but no one wants to be God, 'cause that's too much responsibility.

Michael: Then, okay, so my rebuttal of that, if we are in the likeness of God, are we not God already?

Tori: That's the end. He says, the thing is you're pursuing, the reason you don't know what you want is 'cause you have it, you're it.

Michael: You are the thing that you should be pursuing. That I resonate with tremendously because people always ask me, they're like, how did you really change your life? And I was like, 'cause I just decided to be me. The greatest healing that you have is when you do what you want to do because you want to, and you don't because you don't. And that's it, that's the whole thing. There's identity in there and there's closing gaps in there and these massive shifts and understanding, creating values and boundaries and evaluating your once needs and interests and the whole thing. But ultimately, like in the most summarized version of it, it's can you say no? And can you say yes because you choose it.

Tori: Because it's your, it's aligned with what's true in your heart and what's real for you.

Michael: And not ignoring yourself in your truth. And it's one of the things I think is so devastating is people just live lies forever. And they die with regret, and I'm guilty of it. I lived a life for 25, 26 years. Same, where it was just constantly I'm out of the hood, I'm chasing money, but I'm carrying these scars. I'm carrying the hurt, I'm carrying the suffering, the pain, and then just this afterschool special, and I love him, it's phenomenal. I go look at all the success, and on paper people will look at that and be like, dude, your life's fucking great, and in real life, it's what? What are you talking about? Because I'm trying to find a way to destroy it, constantly, because that's our comfort zone, and so when you're in this right, and you're evaluating it and you're in war with yourself, like, how do you get to the place, I guess first off, walking outside after 10 days inside that's a fucking scary moment. Because I would have to assume, and you can elaborate on if you choose to, I'd have to assume it's like a, what the fuck am I doing kind of moment.

Tori: Oh, very much. It's a slab of the face from, it's like the brick to the head, the universe, the cosmic brick that like life is throwing at you and it's wake up. This is not how you're meant to live. And I, the tears streaming down my face and feeling the sun, it was like this understanding, like I've been in hiding. You're hiding from yourself, from the world. Because you need to come out and be in relationship with life and with people and with, and part of that is like also being in relationship to like your truth, which is you're in pain, you're feeling lost, you're feeling disconnected, and the only way, to reconcile, that is to connect.

Michael: But what if you, so obviously something, I wanna stay in this for a second. Because something happens that leads down the path of, I'm gonna isolate like this. The idea of connection has to be the furthest thing from reality for you. Because I was the same wave of, I'm in the house, I'm playing video games, I'm not showering. I'm not brushing my teeth. I'm ordering in every day, I'm about as depressed as a human being could get.

Tori: I'm not sharing with other people what's going on in my life.

Michael: Oh, hell no. Even my girlfriend at the time, and this was 13 years ago, my girlfriend would come over, she'd be like, what are you doing? I'd be like I'm, I don't know. What are you talking about? And not even facing the reality of the moment, because you're in denial. It's beyond, it's dissociation also.

Tori: Yes. It very much is.

Michael: And so how do you start to let's just connect the pieces here, 'cause I know, and you know this as well. There are people who consume our content and listen to our shows who are coming here because their lives fucking suck right now, and I know that coming into this and when I made the decision to spend the last six years of plus of my life working on this show and this content, it was because I was like, all right, when somebody like you or I we're in the house fucking 10 days, how do we get them out? And it's okay, so you walk out, you realize, okay, this isn't what life is supposed to be. Now what? Because a lot of people are like, yeah, I'll go outside now, what do I do?

Tori: Yeah. It's a great question. And I think there, I don't know if there's one path out, I think there's different tools that work for me. And I didn't know it was like a tool. It was like I just, I knew I had to do something different, right? The first revelation, the awareness is what I'm doing is not working, but how do you, it's the first awareness is that I don't like how I feel.

Michael: Sure, okay. But how do you know if it's not how you're supposed to feel? Because this is where I think people get lost. And they go to what you were talking about where it's like their life sucks right now and they've just totally accepted it. So is there something between I don't feel right. And looking at it through this scope of my life really sucks right now. Do you see what I'm saying? There's a space where it's like people are maybe unaware that it doesn't have to be like that.

Tori: I think there, life is always trying to get your attention, like I believe I agree that like it's trying to speak to you and we can snooze it, we can I don't wanna listen to that voice and we can be in that dissociative state, but there will come a time when you notice your own inner experience and it's about paying attention to that, longer than just a second and being like, no, I'm gonna go back to what I'm doing, going back to numbing, going back to the video game, going back to the bottle, going back to the whatever. It's if when you become aware of that inner experience that like, even if it's just like maybe they don't have the understanding that they don't have to feel like this, but they just know it's just but this sucks, okay. Use that, use that. That is information. What is that trying to tell you? It's trying to get your attention. It's like the pain in your leg. If you just get shot in the leg ow that hurts. I don't wanna feel that way. You're not thinking I like this is how I'm gonna feel forever, you know what I mean? You're like, that is giving me information and now I need to tend to it, and there are people who are walking around with metaphorical spiritual arms, limbs hanging off and they haven't been tending to them, and it be then the work is in the is in the rehabilitation is in the tending to the thing, that's painful. It's the thorn in your side, it's Michael Singer has a book called Untethered Soul. He calls it Remove the Thorn, look at where the pain is, that's the indicator for where the work is and the path out is through the pain, most of us want to go around it. The only path out is through, and that's the thing that most people, I think why they never have the life and feel the feelings and feel the connection that they wanna have is 'cause they're unwilling to feel the pain, 'cause we can't heal what we won't and are unwilling to feel.

Michael: No, you can't, and what ultimately will happen is you're going to bleed on everybody around you.

Tori: Absolutely.

Michael: And you're going to continue to perpetrate and perpetuate the chaos that you accept as reality until one moment comes. And I think this is a, we all will face this moment. I don't care who you are. It's inevitable and you die. And you're on your deathbed and you're like, man, life really sucked. I wish I would've just tried that thing over there or done that or attempted this. But the fear of it all was so devastating, and I really mean that. It's people will come to me and they'll be like, Hey man, like I've read your book, I listen to your podcast and I'm in the coaching programs and I see you on stage and blah, blah, blah. But man, it's I just can't see, nothing's different, and I'm like, what are you doing? What action are you taking? Because that's ultimately the salve, you want to grow that limb back. You put on this magic self called take some action.

Tori: It's so true.

Michael: But that, but it's the fear thing that keeps you stuck. Because there was something in you that was entirely fear-based that led to this place of success has to be struggle, having a good life has to hurt, I cannot have all the things without all the pain.

Tori: And no one can know it. And no one can know that I'm going through the struggle. And to everyone else, it needs to look perfect.

Michael: Why?

Tori: Because I was so afraid of being judged, I like the fear of other people's opinions of me not being this, like I wanted to be idolized as like this. She has her shit together, kind of girl, but on the inside I was like a wreck.

Michael: But why I wanna go deeper. Where did it come from?

Tori: Yeah. 'Cause I think I learned as a little girl that my performance was everything was how I garnered love and acceptance. And belonging. And in order to get that, my performance needed to be perfect or top notch to the degree that people would admire me. I wanted to be admired because I wanted to be loved. And then I had to get to the point where it's I don't care what anyone thinks more than I care about being real, like being honest because it felt everything I did, even the connections and relationships I had on some level felt fake, 'cause I wasn't really being myself.

Michael: It's not even what you wanted. But it's indoctrinated in you and I think you pick, I talk about this all the time. These are the things we pick up in childhood. You don't even know what's happening. No. That the only time dad hugs you is when you get straight A’s.

Tori: Or when you get the applause or the, yeah, the clap and the pat on the back. You learn, you get addicted to that. You learn, and it's not even necessarily something they consciously do, but you learn. I remember the first grade I ever got, I went to an elementary school where we didn't get letter grades, it was a magnet school that was focused in the arts and languages and it was amazing. And then I went to middle school and the first letter grade I ever got was a 59 on a math test, and I remember my teacher pulling me out 'cause she could see I was upset into the hallway and I'm crying and I think to myself, I never wanna feel this way again, I never wanna feel this, and so I learned then if I don't wanna feel this, I gotta do something different. But what I did was, so instead of doing something different for the sake of myself, I started doing what was necessary to get, the (A) so that I could be the best or I could, 'cause I was a 4.0 student. I was the MVP of every team I was on, and then when I get the grade, I learn I can do it, and there comes recognition and praise and you get addicted to that.

Michael: Whose love and recognition and praise were you trying to get?

Tori: Definitely, probably mom and dad. And although they loved me and gave they loved me and supported me regardless of my performance I, if I knew that I could perform well and the outcome was positive, why wouldn't I? That was all I was. It was like, oh, this feels better than not doing well, so I'm just gonna keep pursuing that, but it was a distorted, pursuit of greatness of excellence. It was from a need within myself, 'cause I didn't think that if I wasn't great, if I wasn't perfect, I think I unconsciously thought that, yeah, I wasn't good enough. Do you? I think we all in our own way, struggle with that ultimate fear that we're not good enough for who we are.

Michael: A hundred percent. That's why for me, when I was actually in school, I tried so hard to be successful in sports. 'cause there's nothing I love more than the applause of the crowd. It's such a gladiator thing. Where it's like thumbs up, thumbs down, and like to win championships and wrestling when it's all on you. And like I literally still have my Letterman jacket and all of my wrestling awards because it was just such an important moment because I was trying to seek validation too. But I couldn't get it at home, it was impossible. But I could get it from the crowd. It's really a Marcus Elia kind of situation. Do you think that because your parents work so hard, so many jobs, they're always gone. It was like, at least that was like this little connection, shining moment of connection.

Tori: Yes, absolutely. It was something to celebrate together and I craved those moments of closeness and of celebration and of something to bring us all together around the table to talk about the thing we were doing. Whether it was my mom playing an amazing recital or my sister, it was, what were we celebrating the thing in the family that someone was doing those were always the highlight moments, and I think the shift out of the pursuit of the validation and the pursuit of managing everyone else's perception of me, which took so much energy all the time, the antithesis of that and the shift and the healing came in that I don't care what people think and I have nothing to prove. I don't have to prove myself to you. Like in the re the recognition, and this has only come from work really working on myself, like through deep practices of like breath work and meditation and plant medicine and like just combing through the layers of beliefs and stories and lies that I've learned and told myself for so long, is just like really coming to a point within myself. It's like I don't have anything to prove to anyone but myself, and what I prove to myself the most is when I'm being who I really am.

Michael: I can't help but think this thought I'm gonna try to articulate if it doesn't come through, let's dive into it, because I feel like part of that discovery, let me give you context. My little brother calls me one day, I'm like, 24, 23, 24, somewhere in that window. He goes, Hey man, mom died. And I go, okay, great. Thanks, have an awesome day. Because at 18 I told my mom, I'd never speak to her again. She had chosen drugs and alcohol and five marriages to abusive men, and I had enough. This, everybody knows this, but out of that came a sense of freedom in this really weird way that led down this path that opened up the gate to allow me to step into, maybe I don't have to have everyone like me all the time, 'cause that was my thing. I'm a fucking codependent, people pleasing. Yes man. And people see me now and they're like, that can't possibly be true. And I'm like, I would do anything for you to like me for fucking five seconds. And so I'm wondering, because I have that experience and that's my context, did these losses in your life somehow open up a space of freedom for you to pursue who you now have become?

Tori: Interesting question. Possibly, yeah, in some ways, but I think that's, it's, I was already on the path of starting to do this. I think the most, the most pressing one, I've never really thought about this, would probably be my mom after my mom's death, and it was the most recent loss, it was in 2018. Prior to that, I'd already lost all of my other family members, but I was always afraid. I think even as a young girl, there were things I would hide from my mom and my dad, 'cause I was afraid that they would see me differently and I was afraid. It was always like, yeah managing their idea of me and their perception of me being a good girl. So I would always hide the things that were like, the spicy things I was doing. And I didn't want, I didn't want them to judge me. And I'd already started to work on that before my mom passed. But I think after There was like this unlock of I was not afraid what she would think of how I was living my life. So in that way it is a opening and a gateway to just this permission slip to just fuck it, do what you wanna do.

Michael: Yeah. You have to, it's like there, I'll butcher the quote 'cause I don't remember exactly, but it's something along the lines of, a boy does not become a man until his father dies. Because we're always living in these shadows of the people in front of us, seeking their love, their acknowledgement, their admiration, their guidance or support. And it's weird because it's like what you hear in that is you don't get to really be you until you lose people. Which is, in my experience and having lost many people, part of it is true and part of it is not, because it is this really difficult balance of trying to understand the impact of death while simultaneously still trying to be who you are. Because death is this thing where it's like you look at it, and especially if you experience so much of it, you go, is this gonna make me actually live?

Tori: That's the question. Death is one of our greatest teachers, and I can't remember his name. It's, I know the last, is it John Kazen or Peter Paul Cab? I can't remember what it I think he wrote the book. Wherever you go, there you are. But he basically says, I remember listening to this interview he was doing, and somebody said, what do you think happens after you die? And he said, I'm more concerned about if there's life before death, like real life. Before death, 'cause a lot of us aren't living. So true, and that stuck with me, and that's what I think death has taught me is are you living?

Michael: You and I were sitting in an airport some time this year, months ago. Where were we? Do you remember?

Tori: We were in Nashville.

Michael: Leaving Nashville, we're in Nashville. Okay, we're leaving Nashville. Okay, I remember you were getting on a yellow airplane.

Tori: Yes, God. Don't remind me, dude.

Michael: I have the, I'll tell you after this, but I have won the worst experiences ever with these guys, really? Anyway, so we're getting, you're getting on the yellow airplane and I'm sitting next to you. And I self-proclaimed you the queen of fun, maybe not in so many words, you have this uncanny ability, as an entrepreneur. And I think this is the, if I were to lay out the entrepreneurial endeavor struggle, which I would also probably relate to really everyone now is this need to move a hundred miles an hour. And something that I have historically, it's my number one struggle, I've shared this openly. I've told you I'm in the, I'm about to assume whenever this comes out, I'll be in the middle of a hiatus. Something I've never done before, 'cause it's fucking terrifying to me. So I measure life by what scares me the most, and I attack it. I can crush 75 hard, whatever I can do a hundred day challenge. Fine, I can quit smoking, quit drinking, quit having sex, quit doing so many, but I can't chill.

Tori: The David Goggins mentality.

Michael: Oh my God. Yeah. It's like Goggins something in my head's not right. And I acknowledge that. And so it's like cool. How do you step into that space of living before death? And what does it mean for you?

Tori: For me, this is when you call, yeah. The self the proclaimed like queen of fun or whatever, it's a new identity, it's a new thing I've stepped into over the last few years.

Michael: And for clarity, it's not like you're running around doing blow all night, and driving sports cars and shit, let's be very clear about this. You go to fucking Disneyland and ecstatic dance and bowling.

Tori: But it's been an expansion into my feminine now. I, we all have masculine and feminine energy within us, and I, especially as an entrepreneur and a leader, and a go-getter tended to always operate out of my masculine doer like energy, get shit done. Progress over, like everything, efficiency over everything, living in this urgency culture, I have to do it now, hitting the quota and then going, setting a bigger goal and going after that and continuing to move this target down the road. And that was fine and I got a lot done. And I made a lot happen. But I needed for me to soften into my ability to like, connect with my heart, my playfulness, my ability to receive, my ability to be present, to hold space, to not be in a hurry to learn how to calm down versus necessarily slow down, like I can still get shit done from a calm place on a slow place. Now that has required me to really work on tapping into that feminine essence of things that it's, that prioritizes being overdoing and like with anything, it's like this balance, right? It's like the pendulum often swings, but I try to play in more of a, the middle ground of both and I don't always get it right. But as I've done prioritize things like meditation, like calming, like breath, like dance, things that make me feel more like myself, more like my, I did as a child. I have access to more creativity, access to more flow, things happen much more effortlessly and ease easily because, the place that I'm coming from internally, my intention, my energy is not one of force or control. It's presence and just like being fully here, and then the things tend to like the people that I meet, the like things, coincidences that happen, the spontaneity, the playfulness with life and the moment, and it's been a deepening of my, we were just talking about this before, is like my enjoyment of the whole process of becoming more, of being more, of having more. But it's like also enjoying the process, the daily process of getting there, because I'm only ever here, we always are in a relationship, most of us with not reality, with our mind with the place we're getting to, we're always like, I'm getting there. It's like, where are we getting, we're only here, like in this moment. So it's a practice of learning to come back to the moment and be in the moment instead of being in my future practicing. I like mindfulness, like when I'm in the shower, checking in am I in the shower or am I in my morning meeting already? Or is everyone else in the shower with me right now? Because I'm thinking about that instead of just being, feeling the water, and so I try to practice those types of mindfulness practices that help me come back to right here, right now.

Michael: Yeah, and that sits inside of that idea about this acknowledgement again. Like walking outside and feeling the sunshine on your face and looking at it and going, is this true? Is this reality? Is this where I'm at right now? And I can't help but think in that process there's a letting go that has to occur. There's, you cannot be who you want to become by being the person that you were, it's impossible. There's just no way, because you'll always be handicapped or stuck or trapped in the fear, and you'll be in this position where you're like, I can see what it is I want to become, but you're gonna have to drop some weight 'cause it's like an elevation. And so I'm wondering what did you have to let go of you go, I want to go back again, 'cause I'm circling, I'm continually am circling back into this because I know what it's like to be depressed and anxious and alone. And keeping it inside due to the fear of the judgment and the shame and the guilt of family and friends and community and peers and business associates and people that don't fucking matter. And bob at the gas station and it's cool, you start with acknowledgement, now what do you have to let go of?

Tori: Control.

Michael: Of?

Tori: Everything, people's opinions. Outcomes, results I had to let go of certainty and step into uncertainty.

Michael: But that's your whole identity.

Tori: Yeah. It's not easy, right? It's not easy because that's, you think that you're gonna die if you don't control it and fix it and change and be in charge and force it or like in all the ways we manipulate ourselves into thinking that we are, we're actually controlling it. We're not like, like some, yes, we co-create our lives. Yes. Through intention and through our choices we're, we are controlling ultimately our destiny in that way. But like my posture towards life in terms of all I control, recognizing that I can only control the controllables, like what's happening within me, I can't control you. I can, can't control how you see me, how you interpret me, how you receive what I'm saying, all I'm responsible for is expressing and being the truest version of me and giving up, letting go of the need to dictate how you receive that or what comes of that now, typically, when I'm being my most authentic, truest self, what comes of that is positive. Not always. Sometimes that means the relationship ends. Sometimes that means I have to walk away from something. I am, I let go of my will to embrace the, I will the source the thing that wants to come through me, flow through me. The bigger, cosmic God-like force that I feel like I am connected to, it's like my will is the ego, the personality that wants you to like me, that wants you, which we all have, I'm not divorced from that, I'm not over that, I still wanna put out content that people enjoy and if you subscribe and you give me a five star view, like I still get a hit off that and that's great. And I'll still, but I don't do it for that anymore. I do it because this is how I wanna be, this is who I wanna be, this is how I wanna show up, and this is what I wanna talk about, and this feels really true for me, and I can feel in my being now when I'm out, like when I'm not aligned with that and when I'm doing things because I think I have to, or I think I should, or I think people are gonna like it and that I now have a lower tolerance for living in that state for very long.

Michael: Yeah. Well, a mutual friend of ours, Gary Brecka told me once, again, he's a genius. Obviously, he's like the smartest person I've ever met in my life, and it's like he said, the highest vibrating energy known to man is authenticity.

Tori: It's truth, and in truth.

Michael: With oneself, ultimately, here's how I look at all of the journey of life. If I were to like encapsulate it into a sentence, know thyself, 'cause if you can get there, what actually starts to happen is because of necessity, truth must exist, because you can't lie to yourself. I mean you can, but then guess what? You're fucking in a house for 10 days. You don't go outside, you have no relationships or connections or community. You're 350 pounds smoking two packs a day, drinking yourself to sleep, and your little brother's calling you to tell you don't talk to me, you're not my little brother, and so you look at these moments of inauthenticity, of lies and it's like the moment you start to step into truth, there is a tax to be paid. You're gonna pay a price for all the bullshit. That you have spun into the universe for whatever period of time one has done so.

Tori: And you'll have to lose everything that's not in alignment with truth anymore.

Michael: And you will lose and you will. And I've lost so many friendships, money, relationships, community business opportunities. Yeah. Even I got a, someone asked me to come speak at an event and they're like, but you have to wear a suit. And I said, I can't come. You've seen me, what do I wear? I wear fucking jeans and a leather jacket.

Tori: That's your uniform, that's the thing.

Michael: I would right now, but it'd be sweaty under these lights, and so it's like that authenticity, that is the reason why you and I have bonded over the years, why we are connected because it's the vibrational frequency in which we can see each other. Because of energetically on this ginormous, incalculable quantum plane that we happen to be on. We know when people are fucking lying to us. And yet we ignore lying to ourselves.

Tori: Yeah. And so that lying to myself piece, there are consequences. There are results that I get as a byproduct of that, that I start to experience in my external world, or just a feeling of disconnection of I have, I'm less energetic and excited about life and these things. Now I'm more pessimistic. Now I'm looking at all the things I have to do, and instead of the things I get to do, like I start to, those are the consequences of live, like starting to lie to yourself and not living out your truth, and then those start to compound. And then, and so I think the greater the quicker we become to the more attuned we become to catching that early, because we'll all get, we get out of alignment. We, it's natural, but in return to the truth is the degree in which we're gonna suffer, like for how long the degree to which we continue to live in that state, and then the compounding effect of the results and now the friendships and the, all of the things that happen, it's like, can we just get better at coming back to the truth and quicker at coming back to the truth? Coming back to the truth and letting go of the need to control and manage and force things to be a certain way. Because it is, it comes back down to fear, the fear of losing things and having to say goodbye. And the death cycle of what was to embrace what's true, what is, but I agree. I think truth is the highest vibrating thing that we can connect to and love. I think love is synonymous with that, and so it's not about, it's not about going out and finding truth or finding love. It's about removing anything in the way that prevents me from experiencing that which is already here.

Michael: Yeah. Like how are you interfering with your own success.

Tori: That, how well, what lies or what beliefs or what da is actually in the way of me experiencing that, which I think is in the accomplishment or is gonna give me that that we think all the things we're doing most of us and trying to accomplish and get and accumulate and acquire is 'cause we think it's gonna give us a feeling. It's like I do that not 'cause I need the car, but, it's the feeling I think the car is gonna give me.

Michael: For one second.

Tori: Yeah, I'm gonna be a cool guy and now I'm gonna get a girl, 'cause of the car I'm driving, whatever the fuck. And it's like, what if I could experience that feeling that I'm desperate for right now?

It's here, it's accessible. I just need to remove what's in the way of me that's blocking me. Yeah. That's the path I'm on. It's no, you can have it. You can have it now. You want love, you wanna feel connection. What's in the way of you feeling connected?

Michael: Yeah, you.

Tori: Your distraction, your stories, you're in the way.

Michael: You're in the way. And it's like you, no one gets away with lies ever, my god. The prices I paid, like I can't even really articulate how painful it was, to tell the truth to myself, to my friends, to the people in my life, to my siblings, and then looking at life through where I'm at today, all of it started 'cause I had to pay this massive tax, and it sucked.

Tori: You're gonna pay either way.

Michael: You're gonna pay either way. I agree a hundred percent. It's gonna, it's like pay now or pay later. And what I realized is I was always paying later. It was like I would spin a yarn if you will, and you fast forward eight years and it comes back. And I'm like, fuck, I thought…

Tori: I got away with it.

Michael: I like it. Yeah. And you never get away with it. And you never get away with it from yourself, and so when I sat down and I was like, I'm gonna articulate my values, I'm gonna start with honesty, and I'm gonna tell the truth as much as fucking humanly possible. And it's incredibly uncomfortable, and it's incredibly like this painful experience even within my friends where there's a thing that happens and I call attention to it. I feel like that is my responsibility and I expect that in reciprocation, and the reality is that, thing about honesty, about looking at it and evaluating my life when I was at rock bottom and I was stuck and I was depressed and I was living in fear and I was codependent and all of those things. That truth is what allows me today to sit here and be with you, and that's the scariest part, because I can't promise you that today happens, 'cause I don't know, 'cause everybody's journey is different, but what I do know is that you'll fucking sleep better at night. Your community will be different, your bank account will look different, your body will look different, your mind will feel different, everything will be different if you stop lying.

Tori: Well, and that became the goal, right? Was that like, I could sleep at night, that I could look in the mirror and like who I see. That's the game, that's that, that's why it stopped. I stopped trying to prove everything to everybody else and was like, I need to like me. I need to know that when I look in the mirror. I'm seeing not all the masks and I'm not even like I'm lying to myself and trying to convince myself I'm something I'm not, or that I'm okay when I'm not. And it's like, how many nights did I go to bed trying to talk myself into something? Being like, you are happy. This is the relationship for you. You know what I mean? Like you are not gonna have to convince yourself of the truth.

Michael: Yeah. That's probably the best way I've heard anyone phrase that, 'cause you're right, 'cause you won't have to, 'cause it will just be, it will just be.

Tori: You'll just know it.

Michael: That's exactly right. And that's also the scariest thing because it could be about anything mentally, emotionally, physically, spiritually, sexually, financially, all of it, relationally. It will come to you and you will be in a moment in which you have to acknowledge the truth with yourself and a lot of that truth like. I love this conversation because this is the very thing that changed my life forever because I was living for all of everything into being what everyone told me I should be, constantly. And I would reflect on it, and what's crazy too is go look at your relationships when you're a liar. They suck, yeah, they do. And it sucks for the other person too, 'cause you're pretending to be something for them.

Tori: So we're not ever really in relationship with each other. We're in relationship with the like presenter that we bring to that, or the mask that we're wearing or whatever. It's like we're interacting with each other's masks, not with each other.

Michael: Yes. When you go to an event you have let's, this is hypothetical, okay. This is a complete hypothetical, this is not a real thing. You go to an event, and you see a couple or a dinner or you're at the game and there's this couple, but you know this couple. You're around them, you talk to them all the time, why they're independently or together and you know this. I'm just going through my own process of looking at what this was and my experience. And in public they're everything that you could ever want. In coupled you go, man, god damn, they're so good together with they're holding hands or kissing, look how nice they are, he poured a drink and at home it's like they fucking hate each other. That's because you're dating each other's lives, but that plays out in everything, and it's like when you release yourself of that, those lies, 'cause we see it, it's so funny that we'll lie to ourselves. And pretend that the world doesn't see it on the outside looking at, not that they're necessarily looking at it, but it's right there, you're kinda like waving this flag. This is I'm being inconsistent with the person that I am.

Tori: I'm trying to be something I'm not, yeah.

Michael: But it's safe. And you said something earlier, and I want to circle back into this 'cause this is the cornerstone uncertainty. 'cause you don't know what's on the other side of Tori. No,when you start being the person, what did you discover?

Tori: That's the only life worth living? I don't wanna go back to playing a game with myself and with everybody else. This is, yes, it's scary. It is so scary to give up who you think you are or think you need to be to step into truth, to step into authenticity. Because there's no guarantee, you haven't had context, you don't have evidence that it's gonna work out for you yet, you're trusting. It's called faith. And when you start to work your faith muscle, that is so scary 'cause you're like, I need the guarantee. But that's the thing is can I surrender? Can I fall? I don't know that I'm gonna be caught. But in the falling and the letting go you catch yourself and you're okay. Everybody's operating under the fear of, if I do this, I'm not gonna be okay, and so for me it's been a spiritual journey of resting into what if little girl, little Tori knew? What if deep down in my soul, like I knew there was a force beyond me that so loves me more than I love myself, that I come from that is what if I could rest and relax into the idea that I'm gonna be okay If I do this, it's gonna be okay. Do I know it without a doubt? No, maybe, but this is, I'm gonna trust and I'm gonna surrender because what's the alternative? The alternative is playing the game with yourself. The alternative is lying to yourself, the alternative is posturing for the rest of your life. And I just couldn't do it, anymore.

Michael: Misery.

Tori: Just uncon, oh yeah. And that's when awareness is brutal, that's why they say ignorance is bliss, 'cause it truly is, 'cause once you know and the light's been turned on, you can't turn it off, you can still live that life and posture and let your ego run the show and try to control all the things and make everyone like you, but like you are going, that's being at war with yourself.

Michael: Yeah. My God. It's, I will look at, and I have a tremendous amount of empathy for the ignorant, not in being dumb. Let's be clear, let's contextualize this. Not ignorant as I'm being dumb, but ignorant as in being unknowing, and when I was ignorant, unaware, yeah. Oh my God, I cannot imagine touching that life again. There's nothing that I'm more fearful of than that, that in some weird fucked up way, I would end up ever remotely close back to the version of the human being I used to be, and that's the thing that drives Right. That's the thing that makes me push so hard constantly to not take the vacations. Not do the things that normal people do, and go party and drink and have fun. It's that's why I get up at fucking 5:45 AM and start my day with journaling and meditation and podcast. Because I'm like, but I've come to realize what you just said, and this is, it's always an evolution. This is what I will always say because I've been really good at I'm gonna take a Tuesday off, that's fine. Yeah. I'll do it all the time, that's great. But I was like, I'm gonna do it longer. And I realized that my fear, going back to this airport conversation you and I had months and months ago, my fear in taking long bits of time off is when I would do that in the past. The idle hands of the devil's playground, and I would find myself in and I don't trust myself, I would find myself in some precarious situations. And I've come to realize now, it's not about not trusting myself, it's about, man, I just, there's something that is so fulfilling about the speed of my life and that until it's not, and so you can't go back, there are plateaus. They're not plateaus as in you're stuck here, but they're the next elevation. And you can't go back down the hill.

Tori: Yeah. And the war in your mind is when you know the truth. But you don't act on it.

Michael: Yeah. And then you're the only casualty.

Tori: Yeah. Because it's your, the way you're showing up the way you're behaving, the way you're acting isn't congruent with what's true, and that's when it's hard because, and talking about driving is that's what drives you, it's I think of that unconscious, unaware, disconnected person, if you're driving, that's what's driving. It's like you're blind, you're on the road. And you're gonna leave a lot of casualties, you're gonna be all over the place. It's gonna be a fucking wreck. And everything we're talking about is the process of waking up, becoming aware and becoming conscious of your choices and how you're living and why you're living that way and how you want to live.

Michael: Yeah. And touching it deeper and finding out. When you are even today, when you are living in what you believe to be the most authentic version of who you are, can you go deeper? Can you really express truth? And knowing that in doing so, that it, there may not have to be casualties but there's gonna be a lot of people who are not gonna be on your team anymore.

Tori: For sure. And there's a lot, but they want you to be the version of you were before even still.

Michael: Yeah. Even still, like there, there's you look at it and go, man, I've known this person for two years, or four or five, maybe I didn't know them when they were this or they were that, but we're pulled into this idea of this is how we recognize you as this version of you 2, 4, 5 years ago. And if you're doing this right this is my firm belief, if you're really playing this game, if you're really living life in accordance with no thyself, you will not be the same person I met. And in that you have to let go as well. From the outside looking in. 'cause there's further freedom there, before I ask you my last question, and this has been just an amazing conversation, thank you.

Tori: Thank you.

Michael: So glad that you're here, where can people find you and learn more about you and what you do.

Tori: Yeah, so I am on social media. You can find me on Instagram and TikTok. I'm the Tori Gordon on all platforms. And I have a website, torigordon.com. And then I also run a podcast called Coachable Podcast. And you can find that on YouTube and wherever you stream your podcasts, wherever you're listening to this, you can also find my show.

Michael: Which was also recently, and congratulations, the number one show in Z World.

Tori: Yes, in the education. Yeah, in the education category counts, we're very excited for that, so I love it. We do similar kind of conversation, just trying to get to the root and the juice, the, a out of life and out of what makes life worth living and playing how to play, at the highest levels.

Michael: So yeah, I love it. And of course I have the honor of being on the show.

Tori: Yes. Multiple times.

Michael: A couple of times now.

Tori: Yeah. Twice.

Michael: So it's amazing.

Tori: So you definitely go check out

Michael: those episodes for sure. And of course, guys, we'll put this show notes in the website@ thinkunbrokenpodcast.com. My last question for you, my friend, what does that mean to you to be unbroken?

Tori: What comes through right now, which I think has been the heartbeat and the essence of this conversation, is to be an expression and in alignment with my deepest truths and living that moment to moment. 'cause when I do that, I'm not broken. I'm whole yeah.

Michael: Brilliantly said my friend. Thank you so much for being here. Unbroken Nation, thank you for listening, please comment, share, subscribe, and remember when you share this, you're helping other people transform trauma to triumph, breakdowns to breakthroughs, and to help them become the hero of their own story.

And until next time.

My friends, Be Unbroken.

I'll see ya.