How ADHD Is Secretly Affecting Your Relationships with Melissa Thompson

Michael Unbroken: Healing relationships sometimes require deeper work than you could even imagine, and maybe it’s just me. Maybe it’s my algorithm, which probably is me if it’s my algorithm. But I tend to see a couple of things right now, which I think are really funny: age gap relationships, ADHD, healing, relationships, entrepreneurship, and anime.

If that tells you anything about my life, that’s where I’m at. And I happened to see this amazing post with today’s guest, Melissa Thompson, who I was just like, I have to ask this person to come and be on the podcast because as someone with ADHD who did not treat it forever, she kept talking about these indicators that one might want to consider if in a relationship with someone, or if you do have ADHD.

And I was like, oh shit. This is all me before I started treating myself. And so I’d like to welcome Melissa to the show as we’re gonna dive into that, and how to repair relationships. This is probably gonna be one of the best episodes we’ve done in a long time. Melissa, welcome my friend. Thank you for being here.

Melissa Thompson: Thank you so much for having me. I’m thrilled.

Michael Unbroken: Yeah. I wanna start first just with kind of your background, ’cause I think it’s important. Tell us a little bit about how you got here.

Melissa Thompson: So it started way back in the day when I went to my first therapy session and I felt as if an adult took my emotions seriously. And I was changed ever since. I felt like I wanted to be in that world. I wanted to hear people’s stories. I wanted to learn about resilience and what made them heal. And I started the journey of becoming a therapist and that sort of put me on this journey.

And as I was working in San Francisco and New York City, my practice became fuller and more full and I couldn’t see more people. So I decided to merge into a group practice. So now I have a few therapists who work for me and we are quite similarly trained. And I love what I do.

Michael Unbroken: Nice. Yeah. I love what you do too. And I think as someone, you know, I’m not a therapist, but having been a coach in the childhood trauma space for a decade, and honestly before anybody was doing it, there was like two of us.

One of the things that I’ve always been a humongous proponent of is you need therapy too. You can’t just have coaching. And one of the reasons that, for me, therapy was so practical early on, and Gestalt especially, was because I could start to make meaning of experiences. But the one thing that I always got stuck in was the relationship side of it.

And I think it’s twofold, and the audience knows this, and so I’ll blindside you a little bit, but I grew up with drug addict alcoholic parents, homeless as a kid, lived in 30 different homes. ACE score of 10, ADHD, learning disability, dyslexia, the whole nine. And life was insane. And so my measure of healthy dynamics in relationships were yelling, screaming, fighting, cheating, arguing, hurting each other. Fraud. You name it, you see it, right?

And I would argue I have spent more time as a coach understanding human dynamics interpersonally than directly like one on one, because our relationships are so much more of a marker and a tell for who we are and where we are. You might agree with this: you show me how someone communicates in their relationship, I will show you what fucked them up as a kid, right?

And so I’m really curious, in the scope of everything that you’re doing, why do you work with couples? Why is that important to you and why do you work with individuals specifically in relationships? Because I want people to understand the depth and the breadth of why this work is so important.

Melissa Thompson: I have heard a lot over the years of being a couples therapist, and obviously I see individuals too, around: they’re in a new relationship, things start to happen, and they don’t understand what’s happening for them, what’s happening for their partner.

We can go through the world and do our own healing, and then we get into a relationship with somebody and oops, there’s some unprocessed baggage. And a lot of times I kept hearing, well, you know, you’re not with that person anymore. You’re not living with your mom anymore, your dad anymore. Sorry, I had that tone. You know, it sounds like your dad, but I’m not your dad.

And so that to me is where there’s so much opportunity for growth and for healing that really comes to the surface when you’re in relationship. And I find that piece particularly fascinating. There’s a lot of work you can do on your own, and there are people obviously who do not want to be in partnership, and that’s fine too.

But coming into relationship is where rubber really hits the road. And when you have two nervous systems that may have unprocessed trauma or dysregulated systems trying to make things work, especially after the honeymoon phase has worn off, it can get very interesting.

Michael Unbroken: How much of working through that is choice? Because I think about this a lot. For the couple of relationships I happened to have in the last decade, they kind of ended at irreconcilable differences, which was a thing that I didn’t think was real until I got there when I was younger. Relationships ended because of lying, cheating, fraud, stealing, being mean to each other. All the things that I had learned also through the nurturing process of growing up in the home that I grew up in.

And then I got to this other side of it where I was like, you know what? I’m gonna fight to the death for this. Like no matter what, I’m gonna do my best to figure this out until we get to the precipice of there’s nothing to do. Right. Irreconcilable.

I keep having this conversation with friends. Some who are single, some who are dating. As a single man who is dating, I’m running into this as well. It seems like we somehow have turned a corner, and I don’t think this is exclusively only an internet meme kind of situation. I think this is a societal thing where we have now turned a corner where we are throwing each other away at such a fast pace and clip that I think it’s actually destroying people’s confidence and their ability to actually connect with other human beings.

Melissa Thompson: Yeah, it feels like the instant gratification generation of if something doesn’t work well then it must not be, or you know, this person didn’t do this perfectly well. You know, relationships shouldn’t be this hard. We’ve only been dating for X amount of time.

So I think there is just kind of a sense out there. Also with dating online it’s quite different. You’re scrolling through feeds and pictures and choosing people in this way, sort of different than in real life, which can lead to feeling more disposable or that didn’t work, next.

So yeah, I think the other premise is that I hear a lot in my practice: should it be this difficult? Should it be this difficult? We’ve only been dating for whether it’s five weeks or five months, or a year or five years. Should it really be this hard?

And so when you talk about choice, I do think it takes two people wanting to work on the relationship to make it work. And unfortunately, being in a dyad in the way that we’re talking about relationships now, if one person is not interested in that, it sort of potentially can make the whole thing fall apart. So it has to have two willing participants in that.

Michael Unbroken: Let’s kinda walk a path here, ’cause I think this might be beneficial. I want to go from dating to in a relationship to fighting in a relationship to fixing the relationship to long-term success in relationship.

If we were to look at these kind of markers in the very beginning, let’s say, whether online or in person, which I don’t do online. I gave up on online. I’m like, I’m done with this. This world is a complete mess. Not because I don’t think that there’s opportunity there, but also it’s a huge distraction and it’s murdering your dopamine. I talked to Dr. Anna Lembke about that a few years ago, and I was like, I gotta protect my dopamine.

What should people be contemplating, considering, thinking about when they’re starting dating? Like, what are the most important things that they should be bringing into consideration?

Melissa Thompson: To me, it feels like the first question to ask is, are you ready to date? I think that that’s a very important question that a lot of people look past, whether they’re healing from heartbreak or whether they have certain expectations that they need to date somebody that fits a certain description, like down to a letter, down to the T, and if that doesn’t happen, then it won’t work.

So I think asking yourself the question: am I ready to date? Am I ready to open myself up? Am I ready to have an open mind and to show up with somebody human to human? Not necessarily will this be the person I’ll be with for the rest of my life, are they my life partner, but really human to human. And can I arrive with curiosity and openness?

So I think that’s the first question. I often tell clients what I find is helpful. It sounds maybe a little silly, but really coming from a depth perspective of thinking about your three must-haves and your three can’t-stands. And I don’t mean they need to be an astronaut and drive a Mercedes. I mean deeper things.

Like, I have to have somebody who’s loyal. I have to have somebody who’s not gonna lie to me. Like these foundational pieces, I think getting really clear on are super important before you ever meet up with somebody. So that’s where I would start.

Michael Unbroken: What are the lies that people are telling themselves that you seem to see that people get caught up on once they’re actually in the relationship? What are the things they could have avoided in this clarity that you see maybe with frequency?

Melissa Thompson: I think part of it is the expectations that they’ll meet somebody and that love will be enough and that those butterfly feelings or that attraction or that excitement will get them through the rest of their lives if that’s what they want. Again, some people don’t want long-term relationships, but I think that’s part of it.

I think the other piece is people go into relationships feeling like when I meet that person, I will feel complete. I will feel healed, I will feel fully happy, I will feel I need this in order to complete my life. And I certainly, for one, always wanted to be in partnership. And when I met my husband, I definitely felt like it added to my life, but I had a very full life before I met him. And so it wasn’t necessarily like I had to have him in order to live my life. And I think that’s a big misconception of people.

With that said, I think a lot of people fall into the trap of what’s wrong with me if I can’t be with somebody, or if I am single and I want to be with somebody and I haven’t found that person.

Michael Unbroken: Yeah. And you know, as a guy who’s a huge fan of rom-coms, learning in real life, in real time, that love is not enough, is like a real moment. You know what I mean? And that’s when you kind of discover like, wait a second. There’s like a depth here of actually having to do hard things. Of being able to navigate this.

I remember I was in a relationship during the COVID times and I thought, this is my person. We’re gonna spend the rest of our life together. And then I was like, it’s just the thing. The non-negotiables that you just talked about were not there.

And I don’t think that we had done a good enough job of understanding how to express that to each other, right? And so a long enough timeline that catches up.

And I realised we both had walls up. Like we could not let each other in for certain levels of depth. ’Cause like vulnerability is a real thing, you know? Now we’re heading to six years ago, which is crazy, by the way. I cannot believe it. Has it been six years ago?

Melissa Thompson: Six years ago? My goodness.

Michael Unbroken: Yes. Almost. Right? It’s nuts. And so in the span of six years I’ve dated, I was in a short-term relationship, but I’ve learned how to be massively more vulnerable. And then I realised that I started reading Tara Brach’s book again, Radical Acceptance. And it’s one of three books I make every one of my clients read. And so, because it’s been such a powerful tool for me.

And I’m reading it and I was like, you know what? I’m just going deeper vulnerability. Like, I’ve gotta be seen here.

What would you say to someone who is starting their dating process, they’ve met somebody, things are going well, but then they get scared and the wall starts to go up. They can’t explain it. They don’t know why they can’t let anyone in. Or maybe as in as they want them to be. And we’re talking about this path from dating to long-term successful relationship, and they’re in the beginning. How do you navigate that space where like, I don’t want this wall. I know this wall’s here. I want to be seen, but I’m scared?

Melissa Thompson: I think it goes back to again that question of am I ready, and then doing some of the work before you’re in the activated state of, oh my gosh, I like this person and now the wall’s up and now I’m here.

So if you know you have a wall, can you do some work around whether it’s journaling or going to therapy or talking to your best friend, whatever works, or your own thoughts, doing meditation and really sitting with: where’s the wall coming from? What part of me is putting up a wall? Because it may not be all of you.

There may be the part of you that’s so ready and available and wanting to be in relationship, and then there may be this part of you that’s really afraid. What if I let the wall down and they see the real me and they don’t like it? Like that is terrifying to a lot of people.

We talk about vulnerability and so if they know from a mind perspective that vulnerability, oh, that’s kind of what I’m supposed to do and I’m supposed to show up on the date and be myself and if it doesn’t work out, then it was never meant to be, we know that in our minds and putting that into practice is so difficult. It can be so difficult.

So the first step is being curious. Where does the wall come from? What part of you is putting up that wall and are you willing to sit with it?

So maybe on some of the dates, you can’t put the wall all the way down, but you could share something that is a little bit vulnerable, kind of put your toe in. And you know this with trauma work and things like that. Can you try it a little bit at a time versus either trying to get the wall all the way down or shaming yourself into what’s wrong with you? Just put the wall down. It’s not that big of a deal.

Michael Unbroken: And if you’re on the other side of it, what kind of container do you create for that person?

Melissa Thompson: I think a lot of times if you’re on a new date or you’re in a dating situation and you don’t know this person sitting across from you, it is really hard to know kind of how to show up and what your expectations are and who you should show up as.

But a general rule of thumb is can you be curious? Can you be curious without putting that person on the witness stand, feeling like, oh my gosh, they just keep peppering me with questions.

To slow your own nervous system, to regulate your own nervous system, to know that we’re just human to human getting together and getting to know each other and being curious and open, and if it doesn’t work, that’s okay. If it does work, great, we’ll go out again. Just that sense of ease and regulating your nervous system could be really, really helpful.

Michael Unbroken: Yeah, I found that like, as a podcast host and as a coach, I’m just naturally inquisitive. And I’ve learned to be a question asker and not a problem solver when I’m dating someone. Said every man ever in history.

And so I’m curious, before we move into are you ready for the relationship, right? You’re getting to know each other, things are working well. Maybe you’re connected mentally, emotionally, physically, spiritually. You have some same views on sex and finances. You’re ready to go that next step, but you got ADHD. Let’s talk about what don’t we understand and what is misunderstood about ADHD and the way that people date and the impact that it has on relationships and intimacy?

Melissa Thompson: Well, I think right now more than ever we’re talking about ADHD. I think there’s way more awareness now about ADHD than there ever was. And there’s way more awareness around adults with ADHD that were never diagnosed or maybe misdiagnosed as children. So we’re living in a world where that is coming up.

And you know, some people may argue, oh, it’s overdiagnosed. In my perspective and in my opinion, if it’s something that resonates, it could be very helpful to understand how you show up, and it could be very, very helpful for your partner to understand how you show up.

So I think that not understanding ADHD is where a lot of relationships can start to feel like they’re going off the tracks a little bit and neither one is saying anything. And the person who doesn’t have it is sort of wondering what’s going on. Are they interested in me? Do they even like me?

So I think that’s part of it. I don’t think that we talk enough about it in relationships, to be honest.

Michael Unbroken: Yeah. And part of it, I didn’t understand it. I didn’t understand like the impulsivity that I had. I didn’t understand my lack of being able to be focused. I didn’t understand so many things.

And I got diagnosed relatively young. I mean, I think a lot of kids who come from traumatic backgrounds do. And I knew to try to treat it, but I just had this aversion to pharmaceuticals. My mother was addicted to Oxycontin. She was a big part that took her life eventually. And so I steered away from it.

But then I was listening to Dr. Daniel Amen and he said something really fascinating and I was like, almost permission. He said, you know, you wouldn’t tell someone who had vision problems to not wear glasses, so why would you tell someone with ADHD to not take prescriptions?

And I was like, oh my God, finally I can let go of this shame that I have around this. And I started taking Adderall, very, very low dose, and oh my God, my life is so different. Like, it’s not even, I’m not the same person. It’s wild.

Melissa Thompson: Yeah, I was just gonna say, I actually have a child with ADHD and the doctor said something very similar to me. Like, if you need glasses, why wouldn’t you get them? You would just not get them at all because you need them.

And so I, as a therapist, obviously I can’t prescribe, I’m not recommending medication, but if it’s something to go and get an evaluation on and somebody’s open to it, it could be, in your example, life-changing where it’s normalised and it’s actually very helpful.

So I do think that getting awareness around it and getting… did you end up getting like a formal diagnosis? Did you end up going to do a…

Michael Unbroken: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I did brain scan the whole nine.

Melissa Thompson: Yeah. Wow. Wow. That’s amazing. And you found that it’s been life changing for you?

Michael Unbroken: I’m a different person. Different in business, different in friendships, different in my health, different in… ’cause before, this was my analogy: before I was Atlas, just every day, it’s the boulder every day. And it was just, I was exhausted all the time. It would take me four hours to do something that takes four fucking minutes.

And the impulsivity of dating this person and dating that person then wanting this and wanting that and moving over here in all these different directions. It went away. And here was the crazy part: whenever I dated someone with ADHD, I’m like, oh man, this feels so normal. ’Cause they’re crazy as shit too.

Melissa Thompson: There was a resonance for you.

Michael Unbroken: Well, there was. What are some tools that people should consider when they’re in the dating phase? Again, we’re gonna move into are we ready for the relationship, yes. But in the dating phase, especially if they’re dating someone with ADHD, what do they really need to take into consideration?

Melissa Thompson: Well, again, it depends on where you are in the journey of ADHD. Some people may know, I probably have something, but I don’t really wanna look at it. Some people may get diagnosed and really embrace that diagnosis. So it depends on where you are in your journey around that.

But let’s just say you have ADHD, you’ve been tested, all the things, and you’re showing up in relationship. I think the biggest piece is, can you, again, it comes back to this vulnerability piece. Can you again be vulnerable with your partner and share: this isn’t just ADHD, and we kind of swipe it under the rug. This actually impacts me day to day, and what you’ll notice is X, Y, and Z.

I’ll either be really focused into something or I’ll be really distracted, or my forgetfulness might feel like rejection, but this is what I need in order to stay on track.

So a lot of times in relationship, things like distraction or forgetfulness can land as your partner feeling like, do they even care about me? Do they even wanna be in this?

So to me, education is first. How vulnerable can I be? How much can I share with my partner and be really open, not only about ADHD and how it shows up for you, because it does show up similarly but a little different for everybody, and then sort of things that you may need in the process of being in relationship.

Michael Unbroken: Yeah. And the needs part is tough because that means you have to actually state them. I know.

Melissa Thompson: Well first you have to recognise them first. You have to need, and then you have to state them.

Michael Unbroken: True. What is it that I need?

Melissa Thompson: And then you have to state them, yes.

Michael Unbroken: Well, and that’s where most people are blocked because especially depending on how you grew up, and if you grew up in America, and everything starts with you’re in elementary school, raise your hand to go to the bathroom. Like, I’m like, whoa. You don’t even know how to think for yourself, right?

Melissa Thompson: Correct.

Michael Unbroken: Yeah. And so just quick, I think this is a really special parlay we can move into. Just briefly, how does someone assess needs to be able to say, hey, this is where I’m at?

Melissa Thompson: Well, I think with ADHD sometimes can also come with some shame, definitely. And maybe some lack of understanding fully what’s going on. So first is about can you get educated yourself and can you do the work yourself to really get clear that this isn’t something that should be shameful, even though a lot of people feel embarrassed about it or shameful.

And I think a lot of people, we talk about with my child, we talk about masking in school. He goes to school and he masks and kind of tries to muscle through school. The same can be true in relationship where I’m gonna just try and pull it all together when I’m with this person and I’m not gonna show them any signs of that or what have you.

And so to me it feels like getting educated first, working on the self-compassion piece and self-accepting piece, and then being clear and working with your partner, who my hope is they really love you, adore you, like you wanna be with you, that this information would not be a turn off.

This would actually feel like, wow, what a gift. I actually know what you need. Like, thank you. Thank you for sharing this with me, so that the two of you can work together as opposed to you feeling like you’re alone trying to muscle through this or mask through it.

Michael Unbroken: I love that. Or if you’re like me and you’re a crazy person, you put together a list called the 66 Questions You Should Ask Before You get in a relationship with someone.

Melissa Thompson: Oh my gosh, I love it.

Michael Unbroken: That helps too. No, it’s real. Like I wrote this thing. I realised one day I was like, okay. Without the right questions, you will end up in the wrong place. And that happened to me.

And I was like, okay, wait a second. How do I foundationally create this space of, all right, if this is how I see relationships, the potential for them.

I think all human experiences tend to overlap in the relationship spectrum, my opinion, in six categories: mental, emotional, physical, spiritual, sexual, and financial. And my thesis, my hypothesis, is if you can get to 75% of seeing the world through the same window with your person, that is a freaking passing grade and you’re gonna be good. But they’re very uncomfortable questions. Deep. Why? Because again, that thing about seeing someone, I think that’s how you avoid probably where people end up in your office, right? Not that you still shouldn’t, but you get my point.

So let’s say you’re walking through the path, you’re connected, you’re at that 75%, you’re like, man, we’ve talked about some hard things. I can see a future, and now you’re in the relationship.

What are people in 2026 getting brutally wrong about relationships?

Melissa Thompson: I think a lot of people think that relationships should be easy and no one should argue. I think that’s one of the biggest pieces is that, again, going back to what I said earlier, if you love each other, if you’re looking through the lens of 75% connected, then why do we argue? We shouldn’t argue. That’s bad, that’s wrong.

And to me, and to the psychologist John Gottman, who is wonderful with his scientific research, he talks about how you can decipher whether a couple will stay together, not necessarily by the argument that they had, but if they come back and repair after the conversation.

And what that means is you come back to the table once you’re regulated. I always have to use that little caveat. It’s not come back to the table when you’re still wanting to scream and yell or still shut down or dysregulated. But once you’re regulated, coming back to the table and saying, you know what? I didn’t handle that well, or I don’t wanna argue with you, can we try again?

And I remember when I first met my husband in San Francisco, back in the day I was in therapy, I was going through therapy school, and I went to see my therapist and I thought, this guy, he’s so different than me. I don’t know how, I mean, he’s amazing, but how are we gonna make this work?

And that was so much of us first coming together, was her teaching us how to come back and repair after a hard moment. And it doesn’t have to be a yelling match or anything like that. It could just be where you felt dropped by somebody or where you felt like there was a bid for connection that just didn’t get handled well or a misstep of some kind. Coming back to the table and trying to work it through is huge, I think, in what a lot of people are maybe not focusing on as much as they should.

Michael Unbroken: Why do people have this notion that they’re not meant to be fighting in a relationship? Where did that come from?

Melissa Thompson: It’s a great question. I think it comes from a few places. I think it can always come from popular culture, TV, rom-coms. You mentioned that earlier.

I think it can also come from if you grew up in a family that was really intense in the fighting department as you mentioned that you had, you can see that. And then you can also grow up in a family that never fought, never talked about hard emotions. And that’s sort of swinging from one pendulum to the next.

So I don’t think a lot of us get healthy models for what it looks like to actually have conflict in a relationship and then see the resolution after that.

Michael Unbroken: Yeah. And I think even from the youngest age, just going back to the school thing, conflict resolution in childhood is detention. And that’s like such a crazy notion to me. Where you have all of these children who now are basically adult children who don’t know how to be like, hey, you hurt my feelings.

Because in school, they’re like, go to detention, write sentences that are so arbitrary they carry no meaning. Because you imagine being with your husband and he is like, you need to write a hundred times you’re sorry. You’re like, what the fuck? Like, that’s not the thing.

Melissa Thompson: No, that makes no sense. Absolutely not. I’m not gonna learn anything from that. We’re not gonna understand each other from that. There’s not gonna be a deeper understanding walking away from this to just do something like that. But you’re absolutely right.

Michael Unbroken: So, when we’re in this, you know, because I think that you cannot get away from emotions. And if you do, they will come back. Ask me how I know, right?

And so I spent, I mean, it’s funny, I had to have a very hard conversation with an ex girlfriend. I felt like I owed it to her because I hadn’t done the work. I had kind of ran her over in a lot of ways. And this was 15 years ago. So it was a very different experience, but the conversation was recent because I felt like, you know, I want to have that conversation.

And I realised I was living exactly how my parents had taught me how to communicate. So I didn’t know that she was feeling unsafe about communication. I didn’t know that she thought I was an asshole. I was just like, this is who I am. Take it or leave it. I don’t understand that. Which is the most dangerous sentence anyone could ever say to another person, by the way.

And so then there’s this part about, okay, you wanna repair, you gotta start with you. And I think that there’s a huge fear that people have in going down that path of the self healing journey, because there’s this feeling in society where it’s like you have to go to therapy to get better, right? Or you have to go to coaching so that your life can change.

And they don’t realise that it might take fucking 15 years to have the conversation. So how do we get people to feel encouraged and not dissuade from this journey?

Melissa Thompson: Depending on what you’re healing, and being a therapist for a very long time, healing can take as long as it takes. Everybody’s journey is unique.

I also am a believer in people find their way to what they need to heal in the ways that make sense and work for them. So for some people that is therapy. For some people that is talking to their pastor at church. For some people that’s meditation. For some people, that’s a best friend.

So whatever it is to get you on that healing journey, again, I think it comes from the bravery and the courage to be able to sit with yourself and to look at yourself.

Whether it’s thinking you have a diagnosis of ADHD, or why do the walls go up, or what comes up for me in relationships, why do I not feel good about myself, why am I thinking that I’m less than, to me, it’s all about being able to face yourself.

And you know, Tara Brach talks a lot about that. About being present with yourself and compassionate and loving and knowing. Guess what? I say this all the time. Guess what? We’re all going through something. You think that people have it all together? We don’t. And being a therapist, I’m on that side every day, every week, just noticing that not everybody has it together. Most people don’t have it together. We’re all human here.

Michael Unbroken: Yeah. I definitely don’t. I’ve been doing this work for 16 years. I got my therapist on speed dial, and I’m like, oh shit, I still gotta deal with it. Being an entrepreneur, being a public speaker, being a coach, writing four books, I still… that part of that is me figuring it out.

Right. That’s my little dirty secret. And part of figuring out relationship dynamics is this, and having conversations with you because I didn’t have a marker, right? And so I get to sit with these experts and then I get to ask questions that I wish I would’ve been able to ask as a kid. Or bear witness to, which is probably even more important.

One of the things that I saw, and this was the guiltiest thing that I did, I would constantly just be like, I’m sorry. And then right back to the same behaviour. Yeah. My bad. Hey, I’m sorry.

How does that tend to show up in relationships and then how do people… ’cause I think that’s where the conflict… the first time you’re like, contextually, depending on what it is. The second time you’re like, is this a pattern? The third time you’re like, what the fuck is going on?

And I think that people get into the I’m sorry space. What do you do? Like, how do you actually create conflict resolution and where does repair come on the backside of I’m sorry?

Melissa Thompson: I think a lot of that has to do with your tolerance for discomfort when things are difficult in your relationship. So for some people, when things are difficult in relationship, they just wanna move away from it because they think it’ll make it better.

And so maybe your version of the I’m sorry is to turn the heat down metaphorically in the relationship and get some space so that you can gather yourself so that things can just kind of go back to normal.

So I always recommend to people: yes, an I’m sorry will maybe get you a pass on a few things, but after a while, you’re right. Your partner, if they’re tuned in, are gonna notice, wait, you keep saying you’re sorry, but you keep doing the same thing. So what is that about?

So again, goes back to this curiosity. Am I really sorry? Why am I saying I’m sorry? Is it because I don’t wanna fight with them? Is it because I’m scared to fight with them? Is it because I saw my parents fighting so much? I don’t wanna have any of that in my life because I don’t think that relationships should have conflict. So let me make myself small and not have many needs and push it all down. I think these are all really good questions to ask.

I think the other piece is, you know, the I’m sorry doesn’t give you any vulnerability to offer, right? Unless it’s absolutely genuine and you’re like, I’m sorry. But if it’s an I’m sorry to kind of get the person off your back, to me that feels like a wall. That feels like a defence. That feels like I’m not willing to go any further. I’m sorry. Let’s move on.

Michael Unbroken: Yeah, that was my move. I’m like, this is over. Sorry, I got shit to do. I’m not gonna lie. That’s what it was.

And I think a lot of it, again, this is just my own personal journey of recognising this was so impacted by having ADHD on top of growing up in the home I grew up in. And I realised one of the things I had to do is I had to actually distinguish the difference between character issues versus nervous system issues versus neurodivergency issues.

Because you might say to me, you keep saying sorry, but you’re doing the same thing. And I’m like, that’s actually who I am. Maybe this isn’t intentional. How do we differentiate that, right? Because I think there are, innately, we’re all flawed as human beings. We’re gonna have things. If you leave toothpaste in the sink, if that’s your characteristic, I’m gonna kill you. Like this is not gonna work. But for some people they go, who cares? It’s not a big deal.

So how do you kind of differentiate where those live?

Melissa Thompson: I think it goes back to do you like the person enough to wanna make it work? And are there certain things that you’re willing to look over?

Because I do think people go into relationships and think, why do I have to compromise? Like I shouldn’t have to compromise who I am and what I believe in and what I stand for. And not that I ever think you should do that, but relationship is always about give and take. And it’s always about… people say like, oh, it feels like a negotiation. Well it is sometimes, and it’s not the sexiest part of relationship, but it is.

So there are things that my husband does that drive me bananas, and there are things that I do that drive him bananas. And so to me it feels like, is it acceptance of, oh my God, he’s just gonna leave the toothpaste in the sink, or can we have a conversation about how it actually impacts me? Because maybe it reminds me of something else.

Or maybe it impacts me that I feel so disrespected. It’s in my sink, and the toothpaste is there and it just feels gross, and whatever. And then being able to work it through together where you find some common ground coming through the conversation.

So when we talk about repair, that is the goal, in my opinion. The goal is to come out of the conversation feeling you understood your partner more and you understood yourself more. And going forward, it’s not just gonna be a repeat of this negative cycle of, oh my God, he left the toothpaste in the sink again, which builds more resentment and frustration.

Michael Unbroken: Yeah. Which is a characteristic of the four apocalypse horsemen relationships, right?

Melissa Thompson: Good old Gottman.

Michael Unbroken: Yeah. I’m obsessed with those guys. I have been for years because I love anything research-backed. I’m a prove guy. Don’t just talk shit to me. Fucking prove it. And so I love data.

Which kind of brings me into this question. So I see a lot of people end up in this place of resentment because it’s such a personal jab to them that: how dare you do this thing.

Now, sometimes sure. It’s reasonable. However, and again, this is from the coaching perspective, and somehow in 10 years and 3000 clients, that always at some point relationships come into play. Intimate relationships, et cetera.

And at some point we always have a conversation about: why would they keep doing this to me?

And I love your point just now: it may not be intentional. You may need some give and take.

But how do you repair resentment? That one feels like the hardest of all of them.

Melissa Thompson: Resentment I find to be very difficult as a couples therapist, especially when people have lived and marinated in that for a very long time.

And I often tell couples, rather come in too early for couples therapy than too late. I think a lot of people come in too late thinking, oh, we must be on the brink of divorce or ending in order to have couples therapy. No. I just wanna normalise that, that a lot of people do come in hopefully before that because then we don’t have so much resentment or things to kind of unpack and heal from the past.

Resentment is very difficult because resentment to me is a signal that that person has not felt heard, understood, or seen potentially. And whether they have communicated that with their partner, whether they have brought it up multiple times, whether they’ve been dismissed, whether it’s repeating behaviour.

And usually when there’s resentment, it’s usually on both sides, ’cause we’re human and we’re in with humans. So it’s usually on both sides and that is one of the hardest things to sift through.

And what I hear a lot also is, you know, we talk about it and they talk a good game or they talk about changing this or that, but then the actions really don’t follow it up or they go back to what they were doing before, which really does bump up the resentment.

So yeah, resentment is a tough one. And it’s not impossible to come back from, certainly not. It just takes work and commitment, because when you’re resentful, think about it, my heart closes. I sort of feel like, well, why should I do that for you? Why should I have this conversation? You haven’t shown me anything. You’ve hurt me. I’m not gonna do this. It’s a difficult one.

Michael Unbroken: Yeah. It’s one that I wish that I would’ve been able to understand much, much sooner. Because it really is, it’s almost impossible to get back from it, right?

You talk about a heart closing down and you just go, wow. And that’s both sides. I felt it on both sides.

And as you were talking, it made me think of that film, Marriage Story. Which, if you haven’t seen it, it’s absolutely brutal. But it’s also such an important film when you talk about relationships because there’s that part where I think it’s Adam Driver’s character, Charlie, and he’s like screaming, I was on the cover of New York Magazine and I was a director and I could have been great, but I fell in love with you.

And it’s like, yo, if they would’ve just talked about each other’s goals and created boundaries and had a conversation about expectations, that movie doesn’t exist.

And to me, there was no coming back for them. Obviously, if you’ve seen the film, it does not end well. Well, it, whatever, it doesn’t matter. My point is, when I see things like that, I’m like, how do you turn the car before it hits the wall?

And when you first get into a relationship, what are the commonalities of the conversations that people wish they would’ve had? Because you see this every single day, right?

Melissa Thompson: I think a lot of it, first of all, is relationship maintenance. I think a lot of people aren’t aware that in order to be in a healthy relationship, it really takes work and effort. Knowing that you’re gonna argue, as we’ve spoken before, knowing that repair is super important. A lot of these conversations that haven’t been repaired or worked through kind of stack.

My therapist back in the day used to say, it’s like hiding things underneath the carpet. And then the next fight would come and you trip over that, plus all the other stuff that you’ve kind of brushed under the rug. And so to me, that’s where the resentment builds.

So maintenance is a big one. Being able to keep the positivity of the relationship, doing simple things like kiss hello and goodbye, acknowledging each other, saying what you’re gonna do, doing what you say you’re gonna do, certain other things that we can get into later in terms of just what makes a good, healthy relationship and keeping those things going.

I think the other piece is both people noticing when they are heading towards the wall, and I see quite often where one person is like, alert, alert, alert, problem here, and the other person is like, nope, we’re fine. We’re good. Let’s not look, don’t look too close. Like shove it under the rug.

Michael Unbroken: Totally.

Melissa Thompson: Yeah.

Michael Unbroken: How much of a role is social media playing in all this right now?

Melissa Thompson: I think there’s a lot of comparison out there. I think there’s a lot of what’s displayed in social media and what’s displayed in movies and TV are not the real nitty gritty of how complicated, complex, deep, vulnerable, raw, difficult being in a relationship is.

Being in my relationship is probably one of the hardest things I’ve ever done. Do I broadcast that on social media? Not necessarily. I talk about it through my work. I’m very open about that. And I have a very good marriage with my husband and we put a lot of work and effort into it.

I think there’s a lot of media storylines where couples get together and you don’t really know what happens, but then they’ve kind of broken up. There are no tools sort of given, or things that are practical, that should be common knowledge of how to keep a relationship on track and healthy. And a lot of people aren’t let into the nuances of what happens.

So I think it swings both ways. It’s sort of sensationalised and also shown as perfect and no work here needed. We’re so great.

Michael Unbroken: Yeah. And then like, by the way, we just wanna let all of our followers know we’re divorced. Like Jesus.

Melissa Thompson: Yes.

Michael Unbroken: I see this all the time, especially in this industry. You see it all the time.

Melissa Thompson: I know.

Michael Unbroken: And I’m just like, you guys are fucking liars.

Melissa Thompson: I know.

Michael Unbroken: So I’m curious then, ’cause you said a statement that I wanna unpack a little bit ’cause I think there’s practicality in it and I think that’s always the thing missing from conversations around relationships.

Can you define work and effort? You said, I didn’t know how much work and effort it’s gonna take. What the hell does that actually mean?

Melissa Thompson: Well, I think it’s something that, first of all, you go back to your original question that you asked of like, does it take both people wanting to do this? Yes. Maybe one person is more into it than another person, but I think this relationship maintenance is a big one that can prevent kind of emotional buildup, that car kind of careening to the wall.

I think check-ins about your relationship are a huge one. Do you ever say in your relationship? I say this to my husband all the time. I’m a couples therapist. I’ve been in therapy for years myself, and sometimes he’s like, oh my goodness, we’re good. And I’m like, but are we really? Are you sure we’re good?

Michael Unbroken: I’m that guy.

Melissa Thompson: Because I have that in the back of my mind. I know how important this is. I’ve seen thousands of people in relationships.

So I think being able to say, like, and I say to my couples, what’s the temperature of your relationship? And what I appreciate about couples therapy, it actually gives them a moment in time, whether it’s every week or every other week, to come in and say, yeah, actually, how are we doing? How are you feeling about me? And how am I feeling about you?

So many people don’t do that, and there are lots of reasons for that. Maybe they’re travelling all the time, or work or kids or chaos or sickness or life gets in the way.

So that would be the first thing I would say is, can you keep that check in with each other? And it doesn’t have to be… I think a lot of people also have this notion that it has to be this big grand gesture of let’s travel on vacation together and go do these big things. It’s really about the day to day, week to week kind of boring things of checking in with each other and having those conversations on how we’re doing. That can mean so much and can prevent that emotional buildup later on.

Michael Unbroken: Yeah. And things like, don’t watch the show without her.

Melissa Thompson: Yes.

Michael Unbroken: Yes. You know what I mean? I mean, it is crazy. It’s like the littlest stuff. And it’s like, hey, maybe remember her favourite food and maybe you need to remember the reason why he makes you feel safe and comforted and remember the money doesn’t matter.

I’m sure a huge part of the conversations you have is around money. And I think people have just positioned themselves to want to live this glamorous lifestyle and not understand like, there’s a toll you have to pay.

And then societally you see these people, and again, this is minority. I don’t think this is women as a whole, but you see these women on social like, I won’t date a guy who’s not six four, makes a hundred thousand dollars a year, jacked, you know, and I’m like, he probably doesn’t want you.

And I think that there’s a huge… I saw this stat the other day: that by 2030, 50% of people are gonna be single.

Melissa Thompson: Wow.

Michael Unbroken: It’s crazy. That’s the path that we’re on and I think that’s only gonna get worse. ’Cause now if you look at what just dropped at CES this year, I mean, you basically have removed and made intimacy redundant for both men and women. From a sexual capacity, and not maybe from an emotional capacity, but it’s like some of the technology that just came out, you’re like, and what’s about to come out? Yo. Being in a relationship is literally going to be a choice. And I think a lot of people are about to be very, very, very lonely.

Melissa Thompson: Yeah. I think the other piece I was thinking of as you were talking, and you mentioned something about being curious in the beginning of this and asking questions.

And my husband has a way of wanting to fix when we first got together, wanting to fix all my challenges, issues. Whenever I talk: okay, this is what you need to do and this is how you solve problems. ’Cause that’s what he does at work all day.

And so that’s another thing that I often teach couples is can you just ask a simple question: do you need me to fix this or do you just want me to listen? I think that can prevent a lot of missteps as well.

Michael Unbroken: Totally. That one question has literally changed the way that I interact with most people. Right? Because people are paying me a lot of money to sit and fix their problems. That’s how this works. And then in my real life, I’ve had to be like you, I’ve told people, you have to tell me if I’m in coach mode because it just… it’s so natural now. And sometimes I don’t catch it, but that’s such a great question.

So let’s say somebody’s working with you, you got couples working with you, they’re deep in the work. One of them has got ADHD, the other one’s like on depressive medication, the other maybe a couple. Everything’s normal, but they don’t fight. And so that’s a huge problem.

People are always coming to you because they’re looking for getting reconnected. What are the telltale signs that somebody’s gonna make it?

Melissa Thompson: A couple things. I always go back to: when they come into my office, when couples come into my office, it’s usually a signal of they haven’t given up. So to me, that’s hopeful. There’s still work to be done. Therapy cannot be cheap. Therapy can feel shameful or stigmatising or whatever you have around the thought of therapy. So to actually arrive in the door and sit in the chair is something. That’s information. So here they are. So we haven’t given up yet.

And then when you dive into the work, are both people willing to be here, wanting to be here? What’s getting in the way?

A lot of times couples come in and we talk a lot about Sue Johnson. I don’t know if you’ve heard of Emotionally Focused Therapy, Sue Johnson, she talks a lot. She recently passed, but her book Hold Me Tight is phenomenal.

And she talks about a very common cycle that couples get into when challenge hits a relationship. And one person is the pursuer and wants to talk about things and wants to work through things and wants to have the conversation like right now or before we go to bed, but like right now.

And the other person, when challenge hits a relationship, feels maybe flooded in their nervous system, feels like, I need to give space. I need to move away. I need to regulate myself and maybe this will just go away on its own. They are more like the withdrawer.

So as a couples therapist, we’re sort of assessing, this is the way I’ve been trained and the way that I work and the lens that I have through Sue Johnson’s work, is assessing for: are they more a pursuer type? Are they more the withdrawer type? And realising that they’re getting stuck in what is usually a negative cycle.

And so it could be insert any topic, different day, different time, but here we are again. You feel like you wanna talk about it. You feel like, oh my gosh, get me away from this conversation. And you both are hurt.

So we’re assessing as couples therapists, depending on how you work, for a lot of those things. But I think the hope of you’re here, do you both want to be here, and then really assessing for what are you both willing to hear and be vulnerable with, and to actually change within yourself to make this work.

And some couples may come to a place where, you know, I always say my role as a couples therapist is not to keep you together. Sometimes couples therapy is something that gives you more clarity to say, you know what, this actually isn’t working and I need to walk away.

Michael Unbroken: Yeah. And that’s a hard reality, right? One of the things that Jordan Peterson said that I think about a lot is that you want to choose a person who you’re willing to have a thousand fights with. Because at the end of the day, that’s just the reality.

And on the backside of hearing that, that was one of the drivers where I was like, I’m going to grind the gears till there’s no gears left. I’m gonna do whatever is necessary to try to make this work.

And I’ve never been married, but I would like to. ’Cause I think that it’s a part of the natural evolution of our species in the time and age we live in. And I think it’s cool that you have your person.

And I made this declaration myself: I’m like, I’m never getting divorced. Like I am not. I don’t care how bad it is. I’m not signing papers. I’m fucking 40 years old. Like I’m in it.

Is there a path, this is a high level question that I’m asking a very simplified answer to. Is there a path to never getting divorced?

Melissa Thompson: It’s such a hard question because I think it also depends. I saw a lot of my friends in college get together very young, and a few of them landed in divorce later on because I think we do change and develop and grow, and I think what were our priorities once maybe in our early twenties are not our priorities now.

So there’s so many factors that go into this. I think it comes back to choosing somebody who is not just you’re attracted to and there’s a spark and it’s fun and all of this, but really meets you on some of those deeper levels that are important to you.

Because again, this is about what’s important for you. Everybody’s a little bit different in that department. So knowing, for me, I wanted somebody that was faithful. I wanted somebody that I knew could do the hard work with me. I wanted somebody that wouldn’t give up and would keep trying.

And so when we think about, you know, is there anything you can do to step in the way of divorce, sometimes it happens and that’s okay because one of you has maybe grown or shifted or changed. I think it’s just so personal to each couple. So I don’t know if there’s like a one stop shop.

I think there’s certain things that you can do, like the repair conversation, like making your relationship a priority, like doing these maintenance things. And if that is all done and you still decide that you don’t wanna be together, okay.

Michael Unbroken: I get it. And I hear so much in this is like, it is work. And I think that everything is, there’s nothing worth having that’s ever been easy. And I think that one of the things that I’ve had to learn just personally over the years is to let go of the assumption that you’re not going to have to work your face off for stuff. Especially relationships. Especially dating.

There was a year, literally, I went on like 60 dates in one year. ’Cause I heard this woman go, if I had to go on 400 dates in one year to find my person, I’ll do it.

And then yeah. So then I end up in a relationship for a couple years. That was great. But my point is, it’s like the work has to be there and like, how bad do you want it? And I think we get so comfortable and so complacent with each other. And we forget the reason why we like them to begin with.

Maybe it’s not just the great sex or their looks. Because those things will fade. Your hip’s gonna break, and you’re gonna be old and ugly and sexy. Oh, yeah. And that is just the nature of the world. But can you be friends?

And that’s the thing that I keep leaning into. I’m like, I just want a friendship. I want my person and me to like each other.

Melissa Thompson: Yes. I remember when I met my husband, it felt, the feeling that I had, that resonated with me was, I feel like I’ve got someone who has my back no matter what. Somebody in my corner, somebody cheering me on.

Is he perfect? No. Am I perfect? Absolutely not. But somebody that I know, come thick or thin, come high waters, low waters, life, death, chaos, children, ADHD, neurodiversity, all these things, that they’re in my corner and that they’re hunkering down with me to do the work.

Michael Unbroken: Yeah. That’s super powerful. That’s where I’m at. Like, that’s the whole notion in the way that I see the world these days.

It used to be sex, right? Just full on. It was like, I just only want to have sex with the hottest women possible. I don’t care about anything else. And I was like, oh, well this feels super empty.

And then I had to go do deep, deep, deep, deep, deep work that we’ve talked about on this podcast many times. And then I landed on the other side of the pendulum where I was like, wait a second. It’s actually about being humanly connected to another person.

This has been such a fun, great conversation. Before I ask you the last question, where can people connect with you? Where can they learn more? If they’re struggling in their relationships and they’re like, man, my husband slash wife, we need to do this work. Where can they come and learn from you?

Melissa Thompson: Sure. Yes. So, I have a wonderful small team of therapists that are able to practice in New York City, New Jersey, and Connecticut. Because we’re licensed, we can’t see people elsewhere, unfortunately. And then you can find me on social media. So I’m on TikTok, and then on Instagram, and then our website’s www.embracingjoy.com

Michael Unbroken: Amazing. And guys, if you go to thinkunbrokenpodcast.com, we’ll put that information and more in the show notes for Melissa’s episode. My last question for you, my friend: what does it mean to you to be unbroken?

Melissa Thompson: For me, it means resilience. Even when you’re knocked down, even when you feel afraid, even when you feel hopeless, that you don’t give up and you keep trying whatever that means for you. Whether it’s getting more clear, doing more inner work, leaning in. It’s about resilience for me.

Michael Unbroken: Brilliantly said. Thank you so much for being here.

Unbroken Nation, my friends, thank you guys for listening. If you got value out of today’s episode, you may wanna listen to it with your partner again. You may want to share it with that cute person that you’re dating. You may even want to call Melissa and get scheduled if you live in any of the places she just mentioned.

And Until Then, My Friends.

Be Unbroken. I’ll See You.