Unlocking the Brain's Secrets: How Scans Are Changing Mental Health | with Steve Rondeau

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[SPEAKER_00]: You're listening to the Think Unbroken Podcast, and I'm your host, Michael and Broken.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm an author, speaker, coach, and advocate for adult survivors of childhood trauma and abuse.

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[SPEAKER_00]: In this podcast, you will learn how to transform your trauma in the triumph, turn breakdowns into breakthroughs, and go from victim to being the hero of your own story.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You can learn more at Think UnbrokenPonCast.com, and of course, check us out on Apple Podcasts

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[SPEAKER_00]: We have so much information in the world right now, sometimes it can be overwhelming.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And also sometimes we're missing key pieces of information that could forever change your life.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like maybe what's inside of your brain?

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[SPEAKER_00]: What is actually happening?

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[SPEAKER_00]: What's transpiring on the day to day?

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[SPEAKER_00]: And for many of us who have been through traumatic experiences, maybe people like me who have played sports and have more concussions in you can count.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And for those of us who just need to know,

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[SPEAKER_00]: Why are we not getting more information about what's happening inside of our brain?

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[SPEAKER_00]: We don't do enough information and deep dive into the very thing that shapes us to the core of who we truly are.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm super excited for today's guest, Steve Rondo, because we are going to dive into not only the research and science behind what this is that he is an expert at, but also we're going to talk about my brain.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Steve, my friend, thank you for being here.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, my pleasure, man.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I'm super excited.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Dr. Yeah, me too.

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[SPEAKER_00]: For those who are listening, who have no idea who are you.

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[SPEAKER_00]: What you do, why should they listen to our conversation today?

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[SPEAKER_02]: I think they should listen because we're going to try to unpack and answer the question, are we treating the story, or are we treating the brain?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Hmm, and what's the difference?

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[SPEAKER_02]: The story, through my lens is the manifestation of the brain patterns and how we interpret our environment.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And so when these symptoms show up, that's what we are displaying as our personality, as our symptoms.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And so what we want to try to do is unpack the difference between, you know, what is what is the story that we're presenting with and what do we actually need to be addressing.

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[SPEAKER_00]: For context, let's rewind and just give people your credentials before we jump down this path, because I want people to understand that you're actually an expert at this and not just some guy who watched the YouTube video.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Um, no, actually, I'm just a guy who sits in a cave all day to tell you the truth.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So, sitting in a cave and looking at computers yesterday was about 15 hours.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So, um, yeah, I, um, I don't want to go back too far, but I, I have a, um, background in developmental pediatrics.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So, after medical school, I did a residency in developmental pediatrics.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And, um, from there, I went on to clinical practice where we treated kids with developmental disorders and.

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[SPEAKER_02]: things like autism and seizures and so forth.

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[SPEAKER_02]: But the reason why that's relevant to what we're talking about today is because if I never had done that experience, I would never have realized how much of a gap is missing within mental health.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, and that in that world that I lived in for over a decade.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Remove we made was based on a lab of value a biomarker and when I moved into Just mental health care as as a sort of a broad umbrella It was a whole different world man and I and I was like hold on you guys don't have a test like how do you know what to do?

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[SPEAKER_02]: This is crazy like how do we how are you guys decide in what you're doing say?

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[SPEAKER_02]: Well, you know, hey, we got these questionnaires that people answer and then we look at them and

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[SPEAKER_02]: That's how we kind of decide where we're going to go and it just was like my brain just could not process the idea of treating people without some objective data.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So that's where we ended up.

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[SPEAKER_02]: We started axon about five years ago, I think, and through that time and before we processed over 50,000 brain scans and we looked at lots and lots and lots of brains and really trying to

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I feel like, so my background, if I rewind to really the beginning of my creative journey is I'm a photographer, but I got my first camera when I was like 10 years old and to this day I still own a photography company with a couple of partners that's cameras just always been in my life.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But there's always this thing that people say when it comes to photography, and it's that a picture is worth a thousand words, and one of the things that I think about a lot in the mental health scope of things is we don't have the appropriate pictures, and yet we're trying to apply words to people to make sense of them.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And you see this in the DSM all the time, where we relate to symptoms that are 70 years old as viable, and you're like, wait, something is so disconnected

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[SPEAKER_00]: what let's talk about first I guess the importance of being able to put words to the picture and why that actually matters so much.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's really important to have the objective data there because I think a lot can get lost in subjectivity, right?

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[SPEAKER_02]: And we talk about this in the context of trauma.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, we have so much stuff that we all bring with us from our past and it gets sort of mudied in the waters and how people resent clinically is all different.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And if you take, you know, we go back to the DSM, for example, the diagnostic and statistical manual.

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[SPEAKER_02]: You know, we could have the same diagnosis me in you and not share any of the same symptoms.

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[SPEAKER_02]: That's mind blowing.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Imagine another field that would be like that where we don't share any of the same symptoms, but we have the same diagnosis and yet we're supposed to treat with no no objective data.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Just a questionnaire that says, you know, raise your depression.

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[SPEAKER_02]: You know, imagine if we did that with our cars, we took our car and my dad was going to take my car into my dad and say, Dad, my car's making a noise.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Because we'll tell me what kind of noise is it?

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[SPEAKER_02]: Well, you know, it's it's kind of loud and, you know,

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[SPEAKER_02]: You know, and then you just start to change in parts like that would be crazy.

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[SPEAKER_02]: That would be crazy.

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[SPEAKER_02]: We've never do that.

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[SPEAKER_02]: But yet, that's what we've been doing since Abe Lincoln was around in the 1830s.

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[SPEAKER_02]: You know, is listening to people's stories and trying to make sense of it, which is great.

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[SPEAKER_02]: We do need to have a common language, but it doesn't.

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[SPEAKER_02]: It gives us this false sense of understanding.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that's really the core issue is that, even though we may have all agreed on the diagnosis, it doesn't tell us anything about what's going on underneath.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And I know that you've, because we've talked about this, but I know in your own journey with different treatments and so forth, it's like, yeah, it means totally different from someone else's journey that had ADD or had anxiety or insomnia.

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[SPEAKER_02]: It's like, yeah, we've got to put data

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[SPEAKER_02]: to the symptoms or else it's just, we're just throwing darts, man.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I think one of the things that comes up for me as you say this is medical malpractice is the third leading cause of death in America.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I think so much of that, and I'm not a doctor.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you're way more learned than I will probably ever be.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I look at doctors and people who can go through the slog of,

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[SPEAKER_00]: effectively doing what you've done.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like these guys are geniuses and they're hardworking and I just don't have that in me.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And so I try to be delicate in the way that I phrase this, but when I look at the information and look at the data and then I have my own experiences, you know, I just came on the backside of being in.

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[SPEAKER_00]: incredibly sick and a very first thing the doctor said is I'm going to give you an antibiotic and I said well I don't want to do that because I had seed if that was antibiotic resistant 10 years ago and I do not ever want to have that experience again and Steve he looked at me like I was out of my fucking mind because I advocated for myself.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And, and that's a thing that happens and so I think that there's the part of it where we have this data in this information and like, you know, with AI, everybody wants to be their own doctor, I'm not that I just have data to support this and so when I hear what you're saying, my first thought is why don't we have more data based on you as an individual and so where.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Where's the mistake in the medical system happening where I hear this and then I have the experience with you, which I'm sure we're going to get into a little bit and my first thought is this is something everyone should do, why is it's not happening, yeah, I mean it's I'm telling you my I mean it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's

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[SPEAKER_02]: I don't want to spend too long on that because it's a frustrating thing to talk about, but I think there's so much optimism from the data and whether it's parents helping their kids or having tough conversations with teenagers or even stuff we're working on now with couples.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So that the couples understand each other's brain patterns and it's not just a personality conflict.

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[SPEAKER_02]: you know, where psychiatry's been burned in the past.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's been burned in the number of areas.

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[SPEAKER_02]: You know, this whole neurotransmitter theory, you know, depression is caused by low serotonin.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And I think, you know, doctors get sort of jaded by some of these, these, these, these promises, you know, the genetic tests and so forth.

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[SPEAKER_02]: It's like,

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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, kind of works, but it doesn't really, and sometimes it does, and so I think that's there's a healthy level of skepticism, you know, and I think there's also when it comes to the brain scans specifically in psychiatry and mental health.

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[SPEAKER_02]: There's a territorial challenge, okay?

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[SPEAKER_02]: Like who oversees this?

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[SPEAKER_02]: Who's the expert in this?

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[SPEAKER_02]: I don't, I personally, I don't think that profession exists just yet.

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[SPEAKER_02]: The person who interprets the scans translates the scans to the patients, that doesn't really exist.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Is it the neurologist?

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[SPEAKER_02]: Is it the psychiatrist?

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[SPEAKER_02]: Is it the therapist?

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[SPEAKER_02]: Like who takes that lead?

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[SPEAKER_02]: You know, see, we do this.

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[SPEAKER_02]: for the docs and for the providers to train them and teach them what the scans mean and how they can translate it.

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[SPEAKER_02]: But it's a whole new language.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I was used to lame joke, you know, it's Greek, but it is Greek because, you know, EEG words are great, but it's a lame doctor joke, but it's, you know, it's really, it's a challenging thing, you know, who's going to take this, you know, who's going to take the lead.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So I think that's an area that

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[SPEAKER_02]: You know, there's a lot of docs who are interested in this, but it's like, man, they're, they're, they're grinding.

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[SPEAKER_02]: They're seeing 20, 30 patients like when do they got time to go learn all this stuff.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, this is what I've done in that cave for 15 hours a day for less 20 years and Steve, I think that's all incredibly valid.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I want people to understand like, you know, and even medical professionals, they're doing their best.

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[SPEAKER_00]: We have the information that we have.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And now I think we get more information than we've ever had, right, but what let's walk down this path of understanding the brain a little bit more.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I think that the big misconception, even the misconception that I felt prior to the scan that I did with you, was I had this conversation with the doctor, I said, hey, I've been diagnosed with ADHD since I was seven years old, you know, I'm 40, so back then it was just ADD.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I had all these trauma experiences, I've had all of these concussions and, you know, I get to the doctor to tell the doctor this and they go, okay, I'll try this prescription.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I tried this first prescription and did it made me feel like a fucking crazy person.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And then I tried the next one and we were just we were tested.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Dude, I felt like a lab rat.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And then you and I did this scan.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I sat with you.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I said, here's my background.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Here's what's happened.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You said, cool, let's do this scan.

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[SPEAKER_00]: We sat down.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You said, I've got all of this empirical evidence that supports that someone whose brain looks like yours should try this.

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[SPEAKER_00]: life-changing, right?

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[SPEAKER_00]: And so I think about this, I think about the idea of being an advocate, but let's start with what we're finding in the brain, because I think that this would be really been official.

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[SPEAKER_00]: What is it?

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[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you've got date on 50,000 people plus me, and you've sat and you've done this a time and time again.

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[SPEAKER_00]: What are you seeing?

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[SPEAKER_00]: What are the things that people should be aware of?

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[SPEAKER_00]: That they should consider to go and sit down and have something like this done in the same way that I did.

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[SPEAKER_00]: What are the fine things where you're like, oh my God, if people knew this.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, there's so much done packed there, man.

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[SPEAKER_02]: We could just like probably go on for days and I'd love your interest in it too, which makes even more fun.

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[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, I think, um,

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[SPEAKER_02]: You know, one of the red flags, at least from your story, is when the treatments that should work don't work, you know, in day to day practice, I mean not to oversimplify, but ADHD treatments are generally pretty straightforward when you have straightforward brain patterns, okay, when you don't.

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[SPEAKER_02]: you don't respond to treatment typically, okay?

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[SPEAKER_02]: And I know because we talked about this before the show, but you know what I mean, sharing is that you have two particular patterns in your scan that we did.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And this is just two that we know today.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Ask me in a year.

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[SPEAKER_02]: We're going to know look at way more.

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[SPEAKER_02]: is that you have two patterns that are very, very poor responders to treatment.

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[SPEAKER_02]: They look like ADD.

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[SPEAKER_02]: They look sometimes like GoCity.

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[SPEAKER_02]: They also look like panic attacks, and they can often be described as people describe their traumatic experiences, okay, with these patterns.

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[SPEAKER_02]: But they respond so poorly to most treatments, okay?

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[SPEAKER_02]: Now, you take the story out of that,

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[SPEAKER_02]: then the words, your individual words, my words, my filters, and you just look at the data.

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[SPEAKER_02]: You just look at the data and you say, hey, my comment, I see this pattern in your brain where you brain slows down under load.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Like, under challenge, when your brain is challenged, it slows down, it can make you check out, and that's where the discussion starts.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Like, how does that feel?

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[SPEAKER_02]: Do you, can you design resonate with you?

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[SPEAKER_02]: Does that feel like an experience you have?

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[SPEAKER_02]: You know, like, yeah, man, like, all the time, and, you know, for a while, like, that's why I was drinking every day or that's why I was smoking every day or like whatever what you know, and I think once you You start to see the world through that lens, it becomes incredibly validating for why people are experiencing, you know, what they're experiencing.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And then, of course, validating for the providers who are struggling to try to try to help these people.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, these are very good, hard to people who are trying to help everybody or just doing it with with old tools, you know.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And the experience, it's very true.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You can feel validated or invalidated.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And as I sat with you when you're like, hey, you have a brain that looks like this.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It's probably not going to be as effective in terms of treatment with some of the things that you're trying.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It was the first time that I'd ever felt like I actually had date.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I feel like I've always been a very data-driven person.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But I'd never thought to myself, hey, I should do this brain scan thing.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Let's talk through the process.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But what is it?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Because I know people are probably like, well, what is a brain scan?

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[SPEAKER_00]: What does this do?

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[SPEAKER_00]: What does it look like?

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[SPEAKER_00]: What is this process and where does it originate from?

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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so there's, when we use the word brain scan, there's, it encompasses a lot of different imaging techniques.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And so what we're doing particularly is EEG.

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[SPEAKER_02]: It's 100 year old technology.

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[SPEAKER_02]: It's not new.

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[SPEAKER_02]: What's new or relatively new is that we're taking the data and turning it into pictures and quantifying it.

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[SPEAKER_02]: probably did, maybe I don't know, when you had your head injuries.

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[SPEAKER_02]: That data is used for neurologists to interpret for seizures.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, did you have seizures?

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[SPEAKER_02]: Is there a lesion of some sort, and you can tell that through you, among other technology?

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[SPEAKER_02]: What we do is take the the G data, and this is done all over the world.

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[SPEAKER_02]: in turn it into quantifiable tables where we can look at actually how much data is there.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And now because of AI and all these sophisticated tools we have, we can take thousands and thousands of data points and make sense of it so incredibly quick.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And so that's really what it's all about is to take that data and look at it and say, Okay, here's what we understand of people who don't have symptoms.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Here's what we understand of patterns like this.

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[SPEAKER_02]: How does that relate to your lived experience?

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[SPEAKER_02]: And I think what the key of this is, and really in the theme of your own, what you've built here with your podcast is that

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[SPEAKER_02]: And this is really tempting avenue to go down is to think, what's wrong with my brain, or what's wrong with this person?

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[SPEAKER_02]: And what we've learned over the years, okay?

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[SPEAKER_02]: And it didn't come naturally.

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[SPEAKER_02]: What we learned over the years is that there is really no normal brain, okay?

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[SPEAKER_02]: There's abnormal in supportive environments.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And then there's abnormal in unsupportive environments.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And when those two things happen, that's when people have symptoms, right?

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[SPEAKER_02]: We'll just say, for example, of negative self-talk.

16:59.084 --> 17:00.667
[SPEAKER_02]: We see this a lot in peak performers.

17:00.968 --> 17:02.911
[SPEAKER_02]: We see it in high achievers.

17:03.352 --> 17:05.175
[SPEAKER_02]: We see it in professional athletes.

17:05.195 --> 17:07.138
[SPEAKER_02]: We also see it in some of your earlier podcasts.

17:07.158 --> 17:12.548
[SPEAKER_02]: I was listening to, and I can hear it in the voices of the people talking where they

17:12.528 --> 17:19.355
[SPEAKER_02]: They, you know, they blame themselves and they get hard on themselves and they wake up with shame all the time like those patterns we can measure that, okay?

17:19.375 --> 17:22.458
[SPEAKER_02]: And when we do it changes the whole story, right?

17:22.478 --> 17:30.806
[SPEAKER_02]: Because now we say, hey, Mike, tell me about yourself talk and like what does that look like like, you know, how how do you get, you know, hard on yourself for this or that or whatever?

17:30.886 --> 17:41.657
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, I mean, I think it really just comes back to it to have in that information, having the data and starting those discussions and saying, hey, what is what type of environment is this pattern?

17:41.637 --> 17:41.938
[SPEAKER_02]: in.

17:42.419 --> 17:51.456
[SPEAKER_02]: One more thought about that that really hits home with me is that about two years ago we got our first Husky with Tuna.

17:52.538 --> 17:58.009
[SPEAKER_02]: I was bouncing back and forth between Arizona and family, Colorado.

17:57.989 --> 18:00.632
[SPEAKER_02]: And when the huskies are in Arizona, they're miserable.

18:01.013 --> 18:01.533
[SPEAKER_02]: They're miserable.

18:01.694 --> 18:05.578
[SPEAKER_02]: They sit in front of the fan and they pant and they're hot.

18:05.919 --> 18:06.840
[SPEAKER_02]: They don't want to go outside.

18:06.880 --> 18:08.121
[SPEAKER_02]: They don't want to play their miserable.

18:08.141 --> 18:08.382
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

18:08.642 --> 18:09.763
[SPEAKER_02]: We bring them back to Colorado.

18:09.783 --> 18:10.464
[SPEAKER_02]: They're up in the mountains.

18:10.484 --> 18:11.105
[SPEAKER_02]: They're in winter parks.

18:11.125 --> 18:11.666
[SPEAKER_02]: They're in the snow.

18:11.906 --> 18:12.887
[SPEAKER_02]: They don't want to come inside.

18:12.927 --> 18:14.089
[SPEAKER_02]: They're happy as can be.

18:14.629 --> 18:15.831
[SPEAKER_02]: It's the same dog.

18:16.111 --> 18:16.391
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

18:16.692 --> 18:18.594
[SPEAKER_02]: But it's two totally different environments.

18:18.614 --> 18:22.279
[SPEAKER_02]: If I evaluate those dogs in Arizona, they're depressed.

18:22.299 --> 18:23.260
[SPEAKER_02]: They're motivated.

18:23.720 --> 18:25.342
[SPEAKER_02]: There's frankly something wrong with them.

18:25.523 --> 18:26.764
[SPEAKER_02]: Like what's wrong with your dog?

18:26.744 --> 18:27.925
[SPEAKER_02]: But we bring them back here.

18:28.226 --> 18:29.487
[SPEAKER_02]: They're the happiest dogs that can be.

18:29.868 --> 18:32.551
[SPEAKER_02]: And this is how we look at the brain patterns.

18:32.811 --> 18:36.075
[SPEAKER_02]: What is the environment that this brain is trying to survive in?

18:36.636 --> 18:39.819
[SPEAKER_02]: Whether it's an abusive, it's an neglectful, it's, you know, whatever it is.

18:40.420 --> 18:43.944
[SPEAKER_02]: And is that compatible with the patterns that we see?

18:45.846 --> 18:50.892
[SPEAKER_00]: Can you look at someone's brain and determine whether or not they had childhood trauma?

18:51.333 --> 18:52.494
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's a great question.

18:52.554 --> 18:54.356
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's a hard one to answer at the moment.

18:54.557 --> 18:56.599
[SPEAKER_02]: It's hard not only,

18:57.828 --> 19:01.932
[SPEAKER_02]: academic setting or in a podcast setting or whatever it's it's challenging.

19:01.992 --> 19:12.682
[SPEAKER_02]: And so what we don't quite understand yet in you know fast forward a year maybe we'll have more more understanding is is it the chicken or the act with some of these patterns.

19:12.983 --> 19:14.784
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so that's where I was going.

19:14.804 --> 19:20.390
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and that's what we don't quite know my senses is that these patterns are relatively stable.

19:20.410 --> 19:24.814
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, we've looked at lots of them and some of them are more stable than others, but we know which ones those are.

19:25.334 --> 19:32.845
[SPEAKER_02]: the relatively stable, and when you expose someone to a traumatic experience, let's just say war, okay?

19:32.865 --> 19:34.727
[SPEAKER_02]: And so we have these vulnerable patterns.

19:34.747 --> 19:37.591
[SPEAKER_02]: So I sort of view them as like a resilience pattern.

19:38.432 --> 19:47.906
[SPEAKER_02]: When we have these patterns of lower resilience, and you expose them to trauma, adverse childhood events or whatever, those people tend to fare less well.

19:48.547 --> 19:50.970
[SPEAKER_02]: Those are the ones who come into the clinic and say,

19:58.865 --> 20:02.290
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I think right now, that's probably the case.

20:02.391 --> 20:04.514
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that that's the issue.

20:04.694 --> 20:06.056
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I don't know though.

20:06.116 --> 20:07.659
[SPEAKER_02]: We'll keep grind in.

20:07.699 --> 20:08.700
[SPEAKER_02]: We'll keep looking at the data.

20:08.720 --> 20:10.383
[SPEAKER_02]: It's one of my favorite patterns to look at.

20:10.403 --> 20:12.627
[SPEAKER_02]: Are these patterns associated with trauma?

20:12.647 --> 20:18.155
[SPEAKER_02]: It's ones where we're studying heavily right now, especially as there's so much interest in two areas.

20:18.836 --> 20:20.819
[SPEAKER_02]: Objective-brained data and psychedelics.

20:21.220 --> 20:25.767
[SPEAKER_02]: And so those two areas, at least in the world that I live in right now,

20:25.747 --> 20:29.557
[SPEAKER_02]: People really want to know and so do I. I don't really care what treatment people use.

20:29.898 --> 20:32.165
[SPEAKER_02]: I just wanted to be used mindfully.

20:32.425 --> 20:41.410
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't want it to be used and discriminately like it is now, you know, and and I think it hits even closer to home now that I have, you know, kids in my own and it's like, man, I wouldn't want to do that to my kids.

20:43.600 --> 21:06.705
[SPEAKER_00]: One of the things that I was thinking about as we're talking just now is I interviewed Dr. Carolina Leaf and she's the first person I guess six, six years ago where I've really understood there's a differentiation between the brain and the mind and for a long time I thought they were the same thing and that's my own lack of knowledge, right?

21:06.685 --> 21:10.090
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I look at the brain as being this hardware, right?

21:10.110 --> 21:16.199
[SPEAKER_00]: That's this physical structure that we have, and for what it's worth the mind being the software.

21:17.060 --> 21:27.956
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think about the reality that people try meds, they try talk therapy, they try the gratitude journals, they try the this, they try that, they try my coaching programs, right?

21:28.036 --> 21:35.427
[SPEAKER_00]: And for some people, they just doesn't stick, they stay stuck, they stay in this frozen,

21:35.407 --> 21:47.172
[SPEAKER_00]: What are you getting from the scans that can help people when they feel stuck even though they're showing up every day and they're doing all this work that they think they're supposed to be doing?

21:48.603 --> 21:54.712
[SPEAKER_02]: There are, there's reasons why these patterns and people's environments exist.

21:54.792 --> 22:03.745
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that there's, there's ways that these patterns in the environments that we create serve us, okay?

22:04.026 --> 22:07.090
[SPEAKER_02]: Let me tell you a story and see if this resonates with that question, okay?

22:07.391 --> 22:10.135
[SPEAKER_02]: This is an interesting story in my life, doesn't mind me telling.

22:12.518 --> 22:17.766
[SPEAKER_02]: While back, so I used to race bicycles, I was a big bike rider, and we went for bike ride.

22:18.286 --> 22:21.210
[SPEAKER_02]: And she is, wasn't hadn't been writing as much.

22:21.230 --> 22:23.032
[SPEAKER_02]: And I said, you know, I lean back.

22:23.052 --> 22:24.074
[SPEAKER_02]: She's probably 30 yard back.

22:24.094 --> 22:26.337
[SPEAKER_02]: I said, hey, you know, how are you doing?

22:27.578 --> 22:29.040
[SPEAKER_02]: And she catches up, I slow down.

22:29.100 --> 22:32.605
[SPEAKER_02]: And she goes on for about 10 minutes to tell me all the reasons why she was so far behind.

22:33.246 --> 22:37.071
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, all my lungs today or the allergies or my feet, you know, whatever it was.

22:37.861 --> 22:40.305
[SPEAKER_02]: I said, no, no, no, I'm just asking, like, how are you doing?

22:40.365 --> 22:41.046
[SPEAKER_02]: Are you having fun?

22:41.086 --> 22:42.628
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, you know, how are you doing?

22:42.648 --> 22:47.496
[SPEAKER_02]: It was very black on my, my brain patterns, black on my hers was something's wrong with me, okay?

22:47.516 --> 22:49.519
[SPEAKER_02]: So no, I'm just curious how you doing.

22:49.539 --> 22:50.320
[SPEAKER_02]: Didn't think much of it.

22:51.121 --> 22:54.506
[SPEAKER_02]: Or gone out that night, we have a date and she's getting ready.

22:54.647 --> 22:57.411
[SPEAKER_02]: She puts on a green shirt and I said, you're gonna wear that shirt.

22:58.332 --> 22:59.374
[SPEAKER_02]: And she goes, well, what do you mean?

22:59.554 --> 23:00.896
[SPEAKER_02]: She goes, you wore that shirt earlier?

23:01.016 --> 23:02.198
[SPEAKER_02]: I said, no, no, no, no, no.

23:03.106 --> 23:05.269
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm just asking, I want to wear a green shirt.

23:05.349 --> 23:06.190
[SPEAKER_02]: I didn't want us to match.

23:06.230 --> 23:08.292
[SPEAKER_02]: We take a picture, we're going out like, you know, whatever.

23:09.113 --> 23:13.018
[SPEAKER_02]: She was, oh, oh, I thought you'd just met because, you know, you had that shirt on.

23:13.178 --> 23:15.261
[SPEAKER_02]: Or, you know, I was wearing this one earlier, whatever.

23:15.281 --> 23:25.013
[SPEAKER_02]: So, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

23:25.229 --> 23:30.458
[SPEAKER_02]: You and me, whoever, we walk through this earth together, side by side, experience the day the same.

23:31.260 --> 23:36.228
[SPEAKER_02]: And at the end of the day when we're done, we had a totally different day.

23:37.250 --> 23:38.232
[SPEAKER_02]: We have these filters.

23:38.252 --> 23:48.270
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so when we talk about hardware and software, we're working on a paper right now, when we talk about these brain-based filters, and we take all of the information that comes in, we view it as through a neutral lens.

23:48.290 --> 23:49.532
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, it's just,

23:49.512 --> 23:49.872
[SPEAKER_02]: data.

23:49.892 --> 23:51.174
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just data coming in.

23:51.514 --> 23:54.577
[SPEAKER_02]: War, fires, drought, you know, whatever.

23:54.717 --> 23:56.158
[SPEAKER_02]: It's neutral.

23:56.499 --> 23:56.759
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

23:57.159 --> 24:04.366
[SPEAKER_02]: And depending on our brain-based filters that we have, these filters we can measure, will determine how we assign it a value.

24:05.006 --> 24:06.167
[SPEAKER_02]: Is this boring?

24:06.608 --> 24:08.930
[SPEAKER_02]: Is this threatening?

24:09.451 --> 24:11.633
[SPEAKER_02]: Am I going, am I being judged?

24:13.334 --> 24:15.496
[SPEAKER_02]: Do I need to shut down and sort of retreat?

24:15.596 --> 24:16.397
[SPEAKER_02]: And so,

24:16.833 --> 24:23.642
[SPEAKER_02]: When we understand the filters through which people experience their life, all of a sudden things make so much more sense.

24:23.662 --> 24:33.615
[SPEAKER_02]: Why someone responded the way they did and traffic, why someone got mad at you, why someone, why you feel like you're being judged, why you smoke pot every day and then get up feeling guilty for doing it.

24:33.635 --> 24:35.557
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, like what are those things?

24:35.597 --> 24:38.281
[SPEAKER_02]: Like they're not like these mystical things that just sort of happen.

24:38.301 --> 24:43.988
[SPEAKER_02]: Like you can, you can look at the brain patterns and you can start to make sense of that stuff when it becomes incredibly validate.

24:45.773 --> 25:12.068
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you see because you mentioned they get a self talk and for years that was that was me every single day all the time yeah and again this is that thing about nature versus nurture I go well is that because I grew up in an abusive household where everyone was mean to me all the time and then in schools that was reinforced or is that actually a brain pattern is I mean when you get into the nuance of this can you I

25:12.048 --> 25:18.756
[SPEAKER_00]: identify whether or not that nature versus nurture conversation exists here or do we still not have enough data?

25:18.776 --> 25:33.153
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, there isn't I asked this question because I know a lot of people who are amazing high performers, me, some of my best friends, and we still do we battle this shit all the time, and it's a constant checking of like, you know, you can't say that.

25:33.553 --> 25:41.903
[SPEAKER_00]: And even when I'm around people Steve, the thing I started doing, I don't know, six, seven years ago,

25:41.883 --> 25:51.620
[SPEAKER_00]: And I would just question people like in that moment, but I'm curious if like is that a part of this conversation of nature versus nurture, or do we still not have enough data?

25:51.660 --> 26:00.195
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's both, like I mean, you've hit on a couple things, and I think that technology has

26:00.175 --> 26:04.682
[SPEAKER_02]: given us a model in a language for us to converse around algorithms, right?

26:04.702 --> 26:13.896
[SPEAKER_02]: So if I search up anything, like I was looking up golf clubs for my kid the other day, now my algorithm is all golf clubs on social.

26:13.916 --> 26:14.577
[SPEAKER_02]: It's all golf clubs.

26:14.918 --> 26:20.326
[SPEAKER_02]: So if you have a what's called a negative external bias, okay, you can measure that.

26:20.747 --> 26:24.192
[SPEAKER_02]: Then everything that happens to you and I'm over generalizing, okay?

26:25.252 --> 26:28.115
[SPEAKER_02]: Everything that happens to you gets filtered through that lens, right?

26:28.175 --> 26:29.257
[SPEAKER_02]: And so it's a measurable pattern.

26:29.517 --> 26:33.862
[SPEAKER_02]: That means things that come in become from the outside become a threat, okay?

26:34.143 --> 26:38.007
[SPEAKER_02]: And so your algorithm in your head starts to view it that way.

26:38.047 --> 26:40.891
[SPEAKER_02]: Now you have to work harder to undo that.

26:40.931 --> 26:42.473
[SPEAKER_02]: If you recognize that, right?

26:42.733 --> 26:49.521
[SPEAKER_02]: So some people, a lot of people at the negative self-talk, which is a negative internal filter, okay, negative bias, internal bias.

26:49.838 --> 27:10.581
[SPEAKER_02]: We'll view things like a, oh, let's say a promotion, they may view that instead of being something to get excited about like, yeah, I'm going to get this new boat and we're going to go on vacation, whatever they may view it as, oh my god, they're going to find me out that I'm a phony, I, you know, the imposter syndrome kicks in like what if I get fired because I'm not good enough, I got to lead this team.

27:10.661 --> 27:12.403
[SPEAKER_02]: I what am I going to do so.

27:13.413 --> 27:19.102
[SPEAKER_02]: Again, recognizing these patterns can set you up to create ecosystems to support that, okay?

27:19.122 --> 27:21.325
[SPEAKER_02]: So it doesn't necessarily teach you anything.

27:21.345 --> 27:21.766
[SPEAKER_02]: You don't know.

27:21.906 --> 27:25.171
[SPEAKER_02]: I looked at you and I told you, I said, hey man, tell me about your negative self-talk.

27:25.452 --> 27:27.154
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, oh my god, it happens all the time, you know?

27:27.174 --> 27:28.296
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's like, yeah, you knew that.

27:28.597 --> 27:30.860
[SPEAKER_02]: But did you know there was a hardware pattern that was there?

27:31.020 --> 27:33.464
[SPEAKER_02]: Did you know that there's an environment that supports it?

27:33.484 --> 27:35.427
[SPEAKER_02]: Did you know there's an environment that makes a worse.

27:35.688 --> 27:37.210
[SPEAKER_02]: So when you talk about,

27:37.190 --> 27:41.820
[SPEAKER_02]: nature and nurture, if I have that pattern in my kit, okay?

27:42.301 --> 27:54.928
[SPEAKER_02]: And we, again, we can't undo what's been done, but if I can change the generations, you know, after me, I can recognize that pattern in my kit, and I can change that for him, you know?

27:56.377 --> 28:10.808
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, and I think that's a big part of why I wanted to start this show from the beginning as like, man, we can change people's lives like this so much of it, you know, there's always the sight of this show that I think is.

28:12.357 --> 28:37.048
[SPEAKER_00]: kind of heavy, you know, we talk concepts, we talk ideas, but the real transformation for people and for me myself, it's always like in the, okay, I have a point of data and now I can take an action and I can track that action, measure the variables along the way, and then

28:37.028 --> 29:00.252
[SPEAKER_00]: And the reason I brought up the self-talk thing is I would argue that's probably one of the number one things that people are going through right now, not only just because of social media, which is its own nightmare, we don't need to get into, but also because man, we come from broken homes.

29:00.232 --> 29:10.228
[SPEAKER_00]: is, but is there a, you know, a solution based approach that people should consider, you know, whether or not they have their brain scan, but they're like, man, I fucking hate myself.

29:10.669 --> 29:16.198
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, is there something that they should be contemplating doing and adding to their day?

29:16.178 --> 29:18.902
[SPEAKER_00]: to their life, to the way that they look out the world.

29:18.922 --> 29:19.603
[SPEAKER_02]: It's so much, man.

29:19.623 --> 29:22.847
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like in everything you do, it's in so much.

29:22.887 --> 29:30.378
[SPEAKER_02]: But if you understand the key ingredients that make up our filters, we can start to create those networks.

29:30.398 --> 29:33.883
[SPEAKER_02]: So like for example, given example with kids.

29:33.863 --> 29:36.206
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, we recognize this early in my boys.

29:36.266 --> 29:38.148
[SPEAKER_02]: He they let me scan them since they were little.

29:38.308 --> 29:41.291
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, probably for the last 10 years have been scan in their brains.

29:41.852 --> 29:52.104
[SPEAKER_02]: And, uh, learned a lot because, you know, those these patterns always show up early, you know, maybe five, six, seven before you start to see the pattern show up where you see something like, oh, I'm so dumb.

29:52.164 --> 29:53.605
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, like, where did you hear that?

29:53.706 --> 29:55.668
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, we don't talk like that in the house, okay?

29:55.928 --> 30:03.837
[SPEAKER_02]: So imagine, that's an environment where a kid is saying that in their head.

30:04.205 --> 30:11.997
[SPEAKER_02]: And they're punished for not getting out to the door to school, or not getting their homework done, or being messy in the room, or whatever.

30:12.358 --> 30:17.145
[SPEAKER_02]: And but if you don't understand these patterns, you can just start to reinforce that negative self-taught.

30:17.165 --> 30:21.612
[SPEAKER_02]: So again, if we understand them, how can we create ecosystems to support them?

30:21.672 --> 30:25.538
[SPEAKER_02]: So my other little boy, we recognize these creative patterns, which is,

30:25.518 --> 30:29.063
[SPEAKER_02]: a fascinating topic for me is raising artists, okay?

30:29.303 --> 30:31.726
[SPEAKER_02]: Like yourself with the photography and with all of that.

30:31.746 --> 30:34.730
[SPEAKER_02]: If you understand that about your child, you get the playbook when they're born.

30:34.770 --> 30:36.373
[SPEAKER_02]: You understand this is what's going on.

30:36.393 --> 30:36.833
[SPEAKER_02]: What do you do?

30:37.094 --> 30:38.175
[SPEAKER_02]: You build them in music studio.

30:38.495 --> 30:39.517
[SPEAKER_02]: You build them in music studio.

30:39.998 --> 30:41.259
[SPEAKER_02]: You take them to the water.

30:41.580 --> 30:43.102
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, you give them some lessons.

30:43.402 --> 30:45.004
[SPEAKER_02]: You sign them up with some mentors.

30:45.205 --> 30:47.628
[SPEAKER_02]: And next thing, you know, they're playing at Red Rocks on stage.

30:47.648 --> 30:48.349
[SPEAKER_02]: We should go in there.

30:48.549 --> 30:52.074
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, and it's like, it's not because he's a, it's not because he's a savant.

30:52.194 --> 30:53.736
[SPEAKER_02]: Like he's a great at making music.

30:53.716 --> 30:57.300
[SPEAKER_02]: but it's because we gave them the tools to support his brain patterns.

30:57.620 --> 30:58.200
[SPEAKER_02]: You know what I'm saying?

30:58.421 --> 31:02.345
[SPEAKER_02]: I didn't try to go get you what I did and I see this for like people in my neighborhood.

31:02.365 --> 31:10.633
[SPEAKER_02]: We got a bunch of scientists and doctors and you know engineers and these people want all their kids to go to engineer school and go to doctor school until they're 30 and whatever.

31:10.653 --> 31:12.174
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, no, that's stupid.

31:12.835 --> 31:13.996
[SPEAKER_02]: You've got to create a brain.

31:14.296 --> 31:18.981
[SPEAKER_02]: We're going to create a creative environment where your needs can get met.

31:18.961 --> 31:27.053
[SPEAKER_02]: So when you talk about the negative self-talk, I, you know, undoing the stuff now, I think has its own challenges and I'm no therapist by any means.

31:27.113 --> 31:28.615
[SPEAKER_02]: It has its own challenges to undo.

31:28.915 --> 31:36.286
[SPEAKER_02]: But I think if we can start with the generations that are coming after us to understand their patterns and say, hey man, we're gonna create a place where you get wins every day.

31:36.586 --> 31:43.416
[SPEAKER_02]: So if that negative voice, and you can just say, hey man, like I maybe I struck out and golf this week,

31:43.396 --> 31:44.458
[SPEAKER_02]: This is actually happening.

31:44.758 --> 31:47.443
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, maybe I struck out on Gupta's week, but I'm an excellent hockey player.

31:47.503 --> 31:48.444
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm a great little brother.

31:48.544 --> 31:49.967
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm a great one or whatever.

31:50.187 --> 31:53.012
[SPEAKER_02]: And so we give them these other ways to scratch these itches.

31:53.052 --> 31:55.316
[SPEAKER_02]: And if you don't, man, they're gonna find it.

31:55.476 --> 31:56.177
[SPEAKER_02]: They're gonna find it.

31:56.237 --> 31:58.140
[SPEAKER_02]: And the biggest thing is those screens.

31:58.501 --> 31:59.262
[SPEAKER_02]: If we don't,

31:59.242 --> 32:07.715
[SPEAKER_02]: If we let them find a way to scratch their edges, it's going to be screens, it's going to be substances, it's going to be a bunch of stuff you don't want, you know what I'm saying?

32:08.015 --> 32:23.359
[SPEAKER_02]: So we create the environment, we make the music studio, we make them the art studio and the basement, and we do all these things so that they can get those wins and they can get their needs met and they recognize their value and their contribution, you know?

32:24.740 --> 32:36.249
[SPEAKER_00]: I wrote a note as you were talking because I was listening to David Goggins, who obviously is a very famous, super athlete.

32:36.349 --> 32:38.715
[SPEAKER_00]: I do not, or phrase it as own category.

32:39.421 --> 32:43.004
[SPEAKER_00]: But one of the things he said he was being interviewed by Dr. Andrew Huberman.

32:43.465 --> 32:59.218
[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't know if you've listed that episode or not, but they were talking about the fact that even this guy, who we view in the world as like this guy who's overcome everything to become this hero, and even said, man, you know, I gotta go, he phrased it as to my cookie jar.

32:59.378 --> 33:09.107
[SPEAKER_00]: I have to go into this place when I'm in a dark place where I'm mad at myself when I hate myself, when I feel shame, when I feel guilt, and after remind myself who I am.

33:09.087 --> 33:14.533
[SPEAKER_00]: and Steve, I was having a conversation with my coach probably a month ago.

33:14.953 --> 33:21.300
[SPEAKER_00]: I was in a really weird fucking place because I'm in this transition in life for transitioning the business and working on health things.

33:21.380 --> 33:33.053
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm trying to like get myself oriented especially after the conversation when I had about my brain and I sat with him and I go, dude, I don't know who I am right now.

33:33.488 --> 33:56.323
[SPEAKER_00]: And he goes, you have to remind yourself, and it's crazy because there was so much of this interesting sense of like overwhelm of all the accomplishments of all of the journey of all the impact of all the, I mean, I've got hundreds of messages from people like you change my life, all, all these things and as I was sitting here in this conversation with him, it's exactly what we're talking about right now.

33:56.303 --> 33:59.149
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like the childhood trauma guy, you know what I mean?

33:59.169 --> 34:01.393
[SPEAKER_00]: People come to me in the worst place of their life.

34:01.714 --> 34:03.558
[SPEAKER_00]: I speak on stages about adversity.

34:03.898 --> 34:06.784
[SPEAKER_00]: I follow, but it's like, it fucking impacts me too.

34:07.325 --> 34:18.548
[SPEAKER_00]: And the thing that I have to come back to is it's like, maybe it's not me building my own art studio but maybe it's me doing that other thing that I need that fires me up and drives me.

34:18.528 --> 34:24.518
[SPEAKER_00]: which in this moment is me spending more time public speaking, really growing that thing because that fire is me up.

34:24.558 --> 34:25.760
[SPEAKER_00]: It really excites me.

34:26.221 --> 34:28.685
[SPEAKER_00]: But I had to have this conversation with my coach.

34:29.266 --> 34:35.116
[SPEAKER_00]: And on the backside of it, I wrote this note to myself and it said, remember who the fuck you are.

34:36.118 --> 34:42.088
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's the thing that sometimes people have to be able to step into is it's like,

34:43.317 --> 35:03.722
[SPEAKER_00]: The worst thing that you've ever done doesn't define you and the worst thing that's ever happened to you doesn't define you and yet because we look out into the world and the social scope and our brain makes meaning of the experiences that we're witnessing because it doesn't know the difference between fiction and reality, we think everybody's having a fucking dandy life.

35:03.702 --> 35:05.966
[SPEAKER_00]: everything's great and wrote and it's not.

35:06.066 --> 35:09.692
[SPEAKER_00]: Do like nobody's life is as good as they're portraying it to be nobody.

35:09.772 --> 35:10.854
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't care who they are.

35:11.275 --> 35:24.317
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think that a big part of it is maybe there's something in the reward system here where that giving ourselves the our own accolades taking our own flowers can offset that experience of the negative self talk.

35:24.337 --> 35:29.085
[SPEAKER_02]: 100% you know we have a clinic in Hollywood that we do scans on to we get a lot of

35:29.065 --> 35:34.052
[SPEAKER_02]: you know, people through their recognizable names and the stuff that they're struggling with and it's the same.

35:34.252 --> 35:38.138
[SPEAKER_02]: It's the same stuff, family stuff, substance stuff, self-talk stuff.

35:38.218 --> 35:40.181
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's all the same and no one's immune to that.

35:40.221 --> 35:45.629
[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, I mean, I think that's super powerful of me and the stuff you were, you were talking about is very, very real.

35:45.889 --> 35:49.234
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, one thing, two things you got to remember one is that

35:49.214 --> 35:56.766
[SPEAKER_02]: That's the world through your filters too because you have your own filters just like I have my own filters, you know It's like, you know, we go on vacation.

35:56.806 --> 36:06.801
[SPEAKER_02]: My kids want to rent jet skis and go Scoob and go do all this and I want to sit on the beach and read a book the whole time and like, you know, nobody bug me For like a week, you know, and so but those are our filters.

36:06.822 --> 36:15.475
[SPEAKER_02]: We're in the same place, but we want to totally different locations, you know And I think the other thing too is that you know, we've touched on and spent a lot of time talking about two filters

36:15.455 --> 36:18.399
[SPEAKER_02]: one having to do with this sort of trauma and shutting down.

36:18.840 --> 36:22.785
[SPEAKER_02]: And we talked about the negative self-talk filters, but there's, there's a lot of other ones.

36:22.805 --> 36:26.030
[SPEAKER_02]: And when you put all those together, you have a lot of different combinations, right?

36:26.070 --> 36:29.074
[SPEAKER_02]: So we usually don't just have one that stands out.

36:29.094 --> 36:29.956
[SPEAKER_02]: There's usually a few.

36:30.156 --> 36:32.599
[SPEAKER_02]: And so there's all kinds of stuff that's happening.

36:33.421 --> 36:39.930
[SPEAKER_02]: We had some on the other day, actually, we were talking about a filter that they had, one of these, you know, brain patterns.

36:40.771 --> 36:44.196
[SPEAKER_02]: And I said, and this is going to sound so bizarre, okay, I realized.

36:45.408 --> 36:47.873
[SPEAKER_02]: But I said, tell me about your relationship with animals.

36:47.993 --> 36:52.681
[SPEAKER_02]: I said, when we see these patterns, this combination, it's very common in our animal lovers.

36:52.982 --> 36:55.386
[SPEAKER_02]: And people that work with animals are veterinarians.

36:55.406 --> 36:58.091
[SPEAKER_02]: We have a lot of vets because we got CSU up here.

36:58.532 --> 37:00.075
[SPEAKER_02]: So this is a vetschool.

37:00.983 --> 37:04.507
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, I said, tell me about your relationship with animals.

37:04.588 --> 37:12.778
[SPEAKER_02]: I said, because a lot of people that have this pattern tell me, I would rather hang out with my dog, my cat, my guinea pig, whatever it is, then people.

37:13.219 --> 37:15.982
[SPEAKER_02]: And she just was like, oh my god, yeah, that's like totally totally me.

37:16.323 --> 37:19.987
[SPEAKER_02]: And I used to volunteer and and work at the animal shelter.

37:20.428 --> 37:23.191
[SPEAKER_02]: And I don't do that anymore, but it was like my therapy.

37:23.432 --> 37:27.717
[SPEAKER_02]: And, and I think people really underestimate how much of a rule.

37:27.697 --> 37:40.816
[SPEAKER_02]: these sort of seemingly trivial things are playing in their lives like, you know, pick a ball with their friends or, you know, are at the dinner table, you know, after dinner they're coloring like whatever, whatever people are doing or making music.

37:41.457 --> 37:48.827
[SPEAKER_02]: Those things get sort of pushed aside, especially as we're stressed and pushed to the limits, we're moving, like, you know, all this stuff.

37:48.807 --> 37:53.438
[SPEAKER_02]: And they all get sort of brushed aside, you know, and it's like, maybe have kids who knows what happens.

37:53.458 --> 37:56.265
[SPEAKER_02]: And, um, but those things were scratching an inch for you.

37:56.285 --> 37:59.412
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that if you don't, I know that.

37:59.493 --> 38:00.716
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I've seen it so many times.

38:01.036 --> 38:05.888
[SPEAKER_02]: If you don't get your needs met in three areas, you work.

38:05.868 --> 38:12.361
[SPEAKER_02]: which also include school education, your relationships, which include like friends, and intimate relationships, and your hobbies.

38:12.602 --> 38:12.882
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

38:13.243 --> 38:19.455
[SPEAKER_02]: If one of those areas isn't scratching those edges for you, that's a lot of pressure on the other two.

38:19.876 --> 38:21.119
[SPEAKER_02]: Take two of those away.

38:21.399 --> 38:25.227
[SPEAKER_02]: Imagine your out of a job and you're not having your new good relationship.

38:25.207 --> 38:26.811
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, all you got left is your hobbies.

38:27.152 --> 38:27.754
[SPEAKER_02]: You know what I'm saying?

38:28.075 --> 38:32.747
[SPEAKER_02]: That's a lot of pressure on one area to meet all of your needs.

38:33.088 --> 38:34.512
[SPEAKER_02]: And then we start to have symptoms.

38:34.813 --> 38:36.718
[SPEAKER_02]: And then you go see the doc and say, or you're depressed.

38:38.605 --> 38:45.298
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to go into that because one of the things that you pointed out to me, you're like, dude, you need to have fun.

38:45.358 --> 38:47.863
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, you could see this in my brain scan.

38:48.304 --> 38:49.225
[SPEAKER_00]: I sat there with you.

38:49.245 --> 38:55.838
[SPEAKER_00]: I was on this little coffee shop having this conversation and you're like, you need to spend more time on hobbies and having fun.

38:55.818 --> 39:21.186
[SPEAKER_00]: I can tell you that over the last few years, I have done this kind of life exercise where you measure on a scale of one to 10, the level of fulfillment that you have in different segments of your life, mental, emotional, physical, spiritual, financial, sexual, and in different areas of this measurement that I've put together, which I actually should create an app for my community.

39:21.206 --> 39:25.791
[SPEAKER_00]: I think I'm going to do that, because I think this would be really interesting and sure that data and we can have a conversation

39:25.771 --> 39:32.449
[SPEAKER_00]: But the the lowest ranking area of this that I always have the number one lowest is always hobbies and fun.

39:32.469 --> 39:34.715
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's almost an existence from me.

39:34.735 --> 39:38.344
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, growing up in my home, we were not allowed to have fun.

39:38.665 --> 39:40.911
[SPEAKER_00]: Dude, it was just not a fucking reality.

39:40.891 --> 39:44.956
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, and in the times that we would, it would be limited in time frame.

39:45.116 --> 39:48.279
[SPEAKER_00]: You can have, you have 10 minutes of this or 25 minutes of that.

39:48.319 --> 39:53.806
[SPEAKER_00]: Which I think is probably reasonable subjectively, but I mean, this was everything all the time.

39:54.186 --> 39:56.068
[SPEAKER_00]: It was always, you didn't do enough housework.

39:56.088 --> 39:56.969
[SPEAKER_00]: You didn't clean enough.

39:56.989 --> 39:58.071
[SPEAKER_00]: You didn't do this enough.

39:58.131 --> 40:00.573
[SPEAKER_00]: And we were always subjected to the torment of this.

40:00.894 --> 40:03.777
[SPEAKER_00]: And so still, even after our conversation, which

40:03.757 --> 40:08.002
[SPEAKER_00]: So a month ago six weeks ago, I still have not been able to break that pattern.

40:08.062 --> 40:09.984
[SPEAKER_00]: Even this son, I'll give you a great example.

40:10.405 --> 40:16.331
[SPEAKER_00]: Sunday I was like, I need the day off and there's this new video game that came out.

40:16.612 --> 40:19.475
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't ever play video games dude I am so fucking busy.

40:19.575 --> 40:20.396
[SPEAKER_00]: I do not have time.

40:21.037 --> 40:25.782
[SPEAKER_00]: I have been dying to play this game since I heard about it like two years ago

40:25.762 --> 40:26.543
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's out.

40:27.064 --> 40:28.988
[SPEAKER_00]: And I bought the fucking game Steve.

40:29.228 --> 40:30.130
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't touch it.

40:30.550 --> 40:33.896
[SPEAKER_00]: I felt so much shame and guilt about the idea of having fun.

40:34.477 --> 40:35.840
[SPEAKER_00]: And I know I'm not alone in there.

40:35.960 --> 40:41.830
[SPEAKER_00]: So let's talk about that like what do I was going to say forget the people, but like what do

40:41.810 --> 40:55.256
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm so mad because I'm mad at myself because I'm like, I've wet and I spent this money and I ended up working half the day and then I ended up going to the gym and I did yoga And I did all these other things and those things are fulfilling too.

40:55.296 --> 40:56.118
[SPEAKER_00]: I love going to the gym.

40:56.178 --> 41:00.567
[SPEAKER_00]: I love doing yoga back and going to yoga right after this, but it was like I couldn't turn off.

41:00.667 --> 41:03.733
[SPEAKER_00]: I couldn't just be like sitting in this moment, right?

41:03.713 --> 41:04.775
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's amazing, man.

41:04.915 --> 41:06.698
[SPEAKER_02]: That productivity guilt is a real thing.

41:07.099 --> 41:11.005
[SPEAKER_02]: And you have, I mean, you touched on all of your patterns.

41:11.025 --> 41:19.239
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, people of the listener would have no, but I can see what your brain scan looked like because I looked at it before we talk, but you've touched on all of those patterns.

41:19.259 --> 41:22.945
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think I want to clarify one thing when I say you need to have fun.

41:23.406 --> 41:24.287
[SPEAKER_02]: What I,

41:24.267 --> 41:28.642
[SPEAKER_02]: translated that, at least in my head, it may not have come out in words, is that you need an escape.

41:28.783 --> 41:31.572
[SPEAKER_02]: You need an escape where you're not thinking, okay?

41:31.592 --> 41:36.690
[SPEAKER_02]: So the analogy often uses like you're like an EV, you know, love them or hate them, you're like an electric vehicle.

41:36.923 --> 41:39.247
[SPEAKER_02]: and you need to recharge your batteries, okay?

41:39.548 --> 41:41.652
[SPEAKER_02]: And not everyone's patterns are like that, okay?

41:41.712 --> 41:48.345
[SPEAKER_02]: So if you go see, you know, your buddy, and he doesn't have those patterns, and he's grinding grinding grinding, like, cool, like that's he's got his own thing, okay?

41:48.766 --> 41:55.940
[SPEAKER_02]: But you have these patterns that need your batteries recharge probably half of which was related to your concussion, okay?

41:56.060 --> 41:57.683
[SPEAKER_02]: I think we talked about that too.

41:58.034 --> 42:28.041
[SPEAKER_02]: And if you don't recharge your batteries man at the end of the day at the end of the week at end of month you're going to be out of juice you know and you're not going to bring the best version of you to your show to your relationships to your to your hobbies to like whatever you're doing you know and I think that's just so important to know it's not like it's not an option you have to do that so find something that allows you to turn off when you when you have these patterns where you you feel like you need to you know kind of like check out like what is that going to be is that going to be for me.

42:28.021 --> 42:30.065
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like swimming swimming underwater.

42:30.546 --> 42:31.467
[SPEAKER_02]: Nobody can get a hold of me.

42:31.728 --> 42:34.673
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, phone doesn't ring underwater Like nobody needs anything.

42:34.813 --> 42:36.296
[SPEAKER_02]: It's great sitting in the sauna.

42:36.316 --> 42:36.757
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like that.

42:37.258 --> 42:40.744
[SPEAKER_02]: It used to be long distance bike ride So it wouldn't even go out if I couldn't go out for like 50 miles.

42:40.764 --> 42:42.587
[SPEAKER_02]: You know it's like a weird waste of time, you know

42:42.635 --> 43:08.355
[SPEAKER_02]: And so how do you do that now like with two kids and you know marriage and everything can't do that, you know, so like what how do I how do I get those needs me, but I know if I don't I'm not going to show up the best it may not be a day or two later, it may be a week later, but I'm going to be agitated I'm going to be short I'm not going to be present because what's going to happen all those tabs are going to be open in here and I'm going to be bringing that to all my encounters I'm going to be talking to you thinking about the five other meetings on supposed to be having right.

43:08.335 --> 43:12.813
[SPEAKER_02]: you know, or about the, you know, emails that didn't answer or the kid got to pick up after school.

43:12.833 --> 43:15.102
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, it's like you got to close those taps.

43:15.122 --> 43:15.544
[SPEAKER_02]: You know,

43:16.233 --> 43:16.734
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

43:16.914 --> 43:23.343
[SPEAKER_00]: And part of me wonders, again, this is why, you know, I can't wait for more information or data and more research to come out.

43:23.764 --> 43:25.306
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I go, is that just a proclivity?

43:25.346 --> 43:27.169
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a part of my human nature.

43:27.189 --> 43:30.854
[SPEAKER_00]: Or is that something that was learned, right?

43:30.914 --> 43:42.852
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I think that we're always trying to better understand ourselves because the reality is when I, when I do turn off, like, and one of my favorite things in the world is like, I'll go to the movies.

43:42.892 --> 43:44.434
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah,

43:45.376 --> 44:07.300
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I'll leave my phone in the car and what's crazy is there's a movie theater literally 50 feet from the new recording studio I can walk out this door and be at that movie theater and I've been in this new studio for three weeks and I haven't gone to the movies one time now I'm getting set up and getting oriented there's a lot happening, but you know, maybe I'll ask you this question for people that struggle with that.

44:07.280 --> 44:10.906
[SPEAKER_00]: How important is it to like maybe schedule that into their life?

44:11.046 --> 44:14.893
[SPEAKER_00]: Instead of it being the sporadic, I'm going to hit a wall if I don't stop.

44:15.273 --> 44:20.121
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, do you preemptively create the space for that to exist?

44:20.141 --> 44:27.313
[SPEAKER_02]: I think you've done a unique job of creating such a great ecosystem for yourself.

44:27.293 --> 44:28.675
[SPEAKER_02]: with the patterns that you have.

44:28.695 --> 44:34.425
[SPEAKER_02]: And we talked about this too, I remember, but you know, you have a assistance that help you in so many different areas, you know?

44:34.706 --> 44:39.194
[SPEAKER_02]: And like if you didn't have that with the brain patterns, you have like, I've told people this many times.

44:39.234 --> 44:43.461
[SPEAKER_02]: In fact, this happened, I even told you this because this wasn't even a thing before we talk.

44:43.722 --> 44:49.572
[SPEAKER_02]: So we're shooting a Netflix special right now for an individual who was a professional athlete,

44:49.552 --> 44:52.016
[SPEAKER_02]: bunch of head injuries, substance use, all that stuff.

44:52.036 --> 45:04.999
[SPEAKER_02]: And going through that scan and showing him like why he uses the drugs he uses is like it's so incredibly empowering to say hey man, like how do how am I going to do this now sober?

45:05.360 --> 45:11.530
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, and I think it's the same for you, like how do we take these patterns in this new environment and and make it work?

45:11.550 --> 45:14.175
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think the personal assistance not everyone can do that.

45:14.155 --> 45:18.463
[SPEAKER_02]: not everybody can have a house cleaner and groceries delivered and a reliable transportation.

45:18.523 --> 45:23.913
[SPEAKER_02]: No, but you can work within the system that you have to make it in your case the most predictable.

45:24.173 --> 45:35.353
[SPEAKER_02]: Because if you make your day predictable with boundaries and in 20% of that day is just for you, then when you get to that 20% it doesn't feel guilty that you're not

45:35.333 --> 45:38.897
[SPEAKER_02]: put and work into the show because that's your scheduled recharge time.

45:38.977 --> 45:39.938
[SPEAKER_02]: It's non-negotiable.

45:40.178 --> 45:41.399
[SPEAKER_02]: It has to happen, okay?

45:41.619 --> 45:48.667
[SPEAKER_02]: So like you know when you're on the airplane and if you're listening, I don't know who listens anymore, but hopefully people listen.

45:49.147 --> 45:53.432
[SPEAKER_02]: They say, you know, the mass comes down, you know, you put yours on first.

45:53.492 --> 45:56.555
[SPEAKER_02]: Like that's what you've got to do with that recharge in your batteries.

45:56.595 --> 46:00.979
[SPEAKER_02]: Before you go drive your EV into the other side of the state, you've got to recharge your batteries.

46:01.019 --> 46:01.560
[SPEAKER_02]: And so

46:01.540 --> 46:10.713
[SPEAKER_02]: This is the same for you like where does that fit into your schedule because those negative self referencing patterns are going to kick you in the pants when you wake up and say, damn, I did it again.

46:10.993 --> 46:20.486
[SPEAKER_02]: It's you fill it in with exercise, fill it in with overeating, fill it in with drugs, fill it in with binge scrolling and you have knows whatever else people are doing online.

46:20.506 --> 46:21.628
[SPEAKER_02]: It's all the same thing.

46:21.648 --> 46:23.370
[SPEAKER_02]: They're just trying to get their needs met.

46:23.390 --> 46:28.057
[SPEAKER_02]: And if you have those negative chatter patterns like that, it's just going to keep that narrative going.

46:28.097 --> 46:29.118
[SPEAKER_02]: So you've got to prove it wrong.

46:29.158 --> 46:30.400
[SPEAKER_02]: And you've got to get up every day.

46:30.380 --> 46:33.648
[SPEAKER_02]: improve around and say, I'm going to schedule this end.

46:33.728 --> 46:34.690
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to do this thing.

46:34.931 --> 46:35.773
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, say, it's your game.

46:35.893 --> 46:40.264
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe what you do is you, the day one is just buying the game.

46:40.725 --> 46:42.429
[SPEAKER_02]: Day two is installing the game.

46:42.730 --> 46:45.135
[SPEAKER_02]: And then day three is, I just show up and play the game.

46:45.316 --> 46:47.140
[SPEAKER_02]: So like, for example, with my kids.

46:47.761 --> 46:49.524
[SPEAKER_02]: I got a super artist kid, okay?

46:49.904 --> 47:00.659
[SPEAKER_02]: If I tell him, hey buddy, I want you to go after school and get your paints, put it on the table, get the glass, get all the stuff, the paint brushes, and let's paint.

47:01.140 --> 47:03.523
[SPEAKER_02]: Be like, nah, I'm gonna go play with my buddy, stay out of that sport.

47:03.904 --> 47:10.133
[SPEAKER_02]: But if I put the paints on the table, I have the glass there, maybe I even have a snack lined up if I can do this, okay?

47:10.513 --> 47:11.355
[SPEAKER_02]: I have it all ready to go.

47:11.535 --> 47:12.616
[SPEAKER_02]: He comes home, guess what he does?

47:12.837 --> 47:15.220
[SPEAKER_02]: He just goes to the table, I don't even ask him.

47:15.200 --> 47:16.261
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't even ask them.

47:16.281 --> 47:20.246
[SPEAKER_02]: So how can you decrease that resistance so you can do what you want to do?

47:20.466 --> 47:22.168
[SPEAKER_02]: You know what I mean?

47:22.188 --> 47:39.587
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so I'm going to ask you a follow-up question then because for years I have been trying to find the space of the differentiation between something I'm famously known for saying and it's asking this question am I taking care of myself or taking it easy on myself?

47:39.567 --> 47:44.092
[SPEAKER_00]: And for me, self-care has been everything but the hobby slash fun.

47:44.152 --> 47:45.633
[SPEAKER_00]: It has been the diet.

47:45.653 --> 47:47.295
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I got to smooth you on my desk right now.

47:47.355 --> 47:48.636
[SPEAKER_00]: It's been the exercise.

47:48.716 --> 47:51.920
[SPEAKER_00]: It's I just came back from the gym and I'm going again, yoga this evening.

47:52.380 --> 47:55.023
[SPEAKER_00]: It's the way I spend money and take care of it.

47:55.083 --> 47:57.165
[SPEAKER_00]: It's the way that I interact in relationships.

47:57.265 --> 47:59.808
[SPEAKER_00]: It's doing their work when the work needs to be done.

47:59.868 --> 48:04.052
[SPEAKER_00]: But then the last three nights I've been up till 11 o'clock at night working.

48:04.072 --> 48:06.214
[SPEAKER_00]: Because sometimes that's the world that we're in.

48:06.274 --> 48:07.195
[SPEAKER_00]: Like you have to.

48:07.175 --> 48:10.520
[SPEAKER_00]: anyone who says that you don't have to grow, yesterday you got a 15 hour day.

48:11.061 --> 48:11.862
[SPEAKER_00]: Dude, you got to grow it.

48:12.463 --> 48:17.390
[SPEAKER_00]: So then how do you find the differentiation from I guess really a clinical perspective?

48:17.410 --> 48:25.442
[SPEAKER_00]: How do you look at the brain and the science and the research and go, okay, this is how you know you're taking care of yourself and this is how you know you're taking it easy.

48:25.703 --> 48:35.798
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I think the people who take it easy are going to have a hard life, but the people who are always doing hard things, they get a easier life and that's just true and I've just experienced it personally.

48:35.778 --> 48:51.981
[SPEAKER_00]: But where's kind of the differentiation between the two so that people have a point of measurement for understanding like am I actually taking care of myself by having this break or am I taking it easy on myself because I'm fucking procrastinating for the 30th day.

48:51.961 --> 48:58.911
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, it's, that's a challenging one to answer in a, without a context, okay?

48:58.931 --> 49:01.755
[SPEAKER_02]: So like if we talked about course specifically, okay?

49:01.775 --> 49:07.483
[SPEAKER_02]: Because this, again, if, if I generalize, I'm just doing the same thing that mental health is doing across the board.

49:07.503 --> 49:12.350
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm saying, oh, you have depression, go do the same, or hey, you're, you know, procrastinate or go do the same.

49:12.370 --> 49:15.234
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, no, like, like, I could show you 12 different ways.

49:15.334 --> 49:16.897
[SPEAKER_02]: Procrastination will show up in an EEG.

49:16.917 --> 49:17.818
[SPEAKER_02]: Is it because of social anxiety?

49:17.878 --> 49:18.679
[SPEAKER_02]: Is it because you're overwhelmed?

49:18.899 --> 49:20.061
[SPEAKER_02]: Is it because you're overwhelmed?

49:20.041 --> 49:26.807
[SPEAKER_02]: is because you're cognitively not processing information effectively, is it because you have the negative external bias, negative internal bias, are you anxious?

49:27.047 --> 49:29.209
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I can show you a billion different ways it could show up.

49:29.229 --> 49:35.155
[SPEAKER_02]: That's why it's ridiculous to say, oh, like, these message boards, there's these message boards, mental up message boards, they follow, okay?

49:35.455 --> 49:43.102
[SPEAKER_02]: Like families with ADD and people with, you know, neurodiversity, and they say, my doctor just put me on, Stratera, what do you think?

49:43.322 --> 49:46.185
[SPEAKER_02]: Or my kid has anxiety and ADHD, what should we take?

49:46.225 --> 49:47.466
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm just like,

49:47.446 --> 49:53.776
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, first of all, you're asking Facebook for the advice, but second, it's like, or rather, I haven't gotten it out of it.

49:53.796 --> 49:57.002
[SPEAKER_02]: But second is like, yeah.

49:57.022 --> 50:00.688
[SPEAKER_02]: Second is, you know, it's so grossly generalized.

50:00.708 --> 50:03.973
[SPEAKER_02]: So if we talk about yours specifically, is it self abuse?

50:03.993 --> 50:05.235
[SPEAKER_02]: Or is it self care?

50:05.215 --> 50:10.827
[SPEAKER_02]: Self abuse looks like I'm on the on the treadmill because I hate myself.

50:11.048 --> 50:11.689
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm fat.

50:11.769 --> 50:15.016
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't like the way I look like that's that's self abuse.

50:15.137 --> 50:18.203
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, and it's it is so extremely hard.

50:18.243 --> 50:23.595
[SPEAKER_02]: I know for a person that has those negative self referencing patterns to

50:23.575 --> 50:40.082
[SPEAKER_02]: do it out of self love like that's a really hard thing to do to say I'm going to go exercise because I love myself, you know, as opposed to I'm going to go work out because I need to be more jack than this other guy, you know, I'm saying or I bought it like here's one like I think about this one a lot.

50:40.315 --> 50:56.083
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I bought this car because I love cars and I appreciate the craftsmanship and I would own this car if nobody ever saw me drive it versus I bought this car to impress women or to impress my neighbors or to let my colleagues know I'm killing it, you know what I'm saying.

50:56.103 --> 51:00.130
[SPEAKER_02]: So like you have to like know what the pattern is underneath.

51:00.110 --> 51:03.434
[SPEAKER_02]: to know if that thing is serving you or not, you know.

51:03.454 --> 51:22.774
[SPEAKER_02]: So like for me, self care would be like I said, a book on the beach, that would be self care or schedule in the sages because my brain is sort of overrows, you know, and I got to like slow it down, you know, self abuse would be, you know, grinding so that I could take the day off the next day, but I worked for like 20 hours today.

51:22.834 --> 51:29.121
[SPEAKER_02]: Like that would be abuse, you know, I'm saying like like compromising my

51:29.101 --> 51:41.316
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that knowing that these patterns are here, where you need that escape, you got a schedule that 20% every day, and then tell yourself, that's out of the love, like you're doing it, because that's going to bring the best version of you.

51:41.416 --> 51:43.219
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not avoidance.

51:43.239 --> 51:52.510
[SPEAKER_02]: And if you really wanted to kind of hack this, I think I would say, how could you, how could you,

51:53.333 --> 51:58.080
[SPEAKER_02]: a symbol of team that would get the work done that you normally would be doing that type.

51:58.380 --> 51:58.981
[SPEAKER_02]: You see what I'm saying?

51:59.001 --> 52:03.047
[SPEAKER_02]: So like you go into the movies, but there's still work being done, okay?

52:03.247 --> 52:05.691
[SPEAKER_02]: And then you don't feel so guilty about about doing that.

52:05.851 --> 52:13.743
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think over time, it'll evolve and you'll realize, hey, this is what I need because when I go in their space, really the patterns you have need space.

52:14.023 --> 52:17.488
[SPEAKER_02]: If you don't give them space, you're not going to have the next big idea.

52:17.749 --> 52:19.271
[SPEAKER_02]: You're not going to have the new app.

52:20.393 --> 52:22.075
[SPEAKER_02]: You're

52:22.122 --> 52:22.917
[SPEAKER_02]: with your Pat.

52:23.529 --> 52:24.201
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

52:24.653 --> 52:25.114
[SPEAKER_00]: totally.

52:25.134 --> 52:29.680
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I love that we're talking about me, which I really appreciate because I got so much value out of the scam.

52:30.221 --> 52:34.788
[SPEAKER_00]: And as we're sitting here having this conversation, I'm thinking myself, okay, cool.

52:34.868 --> 52:54.576
[SPEAKER_00]: But what about Stacey, who has three kids, and she's a single mom, and she's got all the stuff on her plate, or Bill, who's the working dad with the state home wife, and they've got all the things, or the guy who's in college, and he's on the swim team, but he's also trying to

52:54.556 --> 53:05.781
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, I think that so many one of the things I hate about podcast and I've probably been guilty about this just because of the context of the world that we're in, there's I've made these broad generalizations.

53:06.101 --> 53:11.012
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, the fact that my life has changed significantly since our conversation is like meaningful.

53:10.992 --> 53:24.472
[SPEAKER_00]: So, when people are hearing this, and I don't have an assistant, I can't do a brain scan blah, blah, blah, blah, are there some elements of consideration just to make their life different?

53:24.492 --> 53:38.653
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, if they're just in the moment, like, man, things aren't working, I'm getting high every day, I'm watching porn, I'm playing video games all the time, I'm scrolling, I'm reading smart magazines, like whatever is minimum, and we'll have our thing.

53:38.633 --> 53:46.466
[SPEAKER_00]: are there maybe two or three different things that they should be taking in a consideration where it's like, I should be controlling my life by doing.

53:46.506 --> 54:00.129
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, again, it's a challenging thing because I love these conversations, but they become elusive when there isn't a context to the to the pattern.

54:00.189 --> 54:01.772
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, so if I say,

54:02.022 --> 54:09.769
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, in this particular individual with this type of symptom manifestation, this is where they, you know, could get their needs met.

54:09.789 --> 54:17.656
[SPEAKER_02]: I think what we have to do is we have to look at what what the activity is that we're doing, that we don't like.

54:17.676 --> 54:17.896
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

54:17.916 --> 54:19.757
[SPEAKER_02]: We'll just say scrolling online.

54:20.058 --> 54:20.318
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

54:20.698 --> 54:22.500
[SPEAKER_02]: What need is that trying to meet?

54:23.341 --> 54:25.422
[SPEAKER_02]: And then try to substitute that.

54:25.542 --> 54:30.747
[SPEAKER_02]: So for example, in

54:30.845 --> 54:36.032
[SPEAKER_02]: we have a lot of brain scans from from individuals struggling with with with drugs and alcohol.

54:37.474 --> 54:48.330
[SPEAKER_02]: What ends up happening in those centers, um, in which we don't generally like to talk about especially people in that space, is the outcomes are generally not very good, um, long-term, okay.

54:49.036 --> 54:55.102
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think it's because when you go in there, and I've seen this, your brain looks a certain way.

54:55.322 --> 54:59.767
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, you're sober, we're going in, I'm talking about sober facilities, you're sober.

55:00.467 --> 55:02.569
[SPEAKER_02]: You come out, your brain looks relatively the same.

55:02.830 --> 55:05.813
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, there's some subtle changes day to day, but it looks relatively the same.

55:06.313 --> 55:11.018
[SPEAKER_02]: You've taken away that substance, but you haven't replaced it necessarily with anything else.

55:11.278 --> 55:17.524
[SPEAKER_02]: So how are we going to get that need in a minute, okay?

55:17.504 --> 55:31.193
[SPEAKER_02]: are special that we're shooting, you know, we're talking about a race hard driver here and, you know, the guy can't race, so he's doing Coke and everything else and like what crack all kinds of stuff is like, well, yeah, of course, you're used to driving 200 miles an hour.

55:31.274 --> 55:32.857
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, you're not driving 200 miles an hour.

55:33.197 --> 55:35.982
[SPEAKER_02]: How do we speed our brain up like we're driving 200 miles an hour?

55:36.002 --> 55:37.664
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, we could drink 20 miles.

55:37.925 --> 55:41.170
[SPEAKER_02]: Just do some co, you know, or smoke some crap, you know what I'm like?

55:41.531 --> 55:42.672
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, of course, that's what you do.

55:42.692 --> 55:45.036
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like so predictable, okay?

55:45.056 --> 55:52.488
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's also predictable if you just remove that thing, just remove the porn, just remove the scrolling, just remove the wine, whatever it is.

55:53.390 --> 55:54.912
[SPEAKER_02]: Something has to replace that.

55:55.012 --> 55:56.775
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that, you know,

55:56.755 --> 56:20.164
[SPEAKER_02]: you were talking about a mom or a dad or whatever like those as a team I think we can help each other when we recognize that and say okay I need support in this area so that I can go get a massage or I can go for a walk I can go read a book in the backyard like it doesn't have to cost money you know frankly those are probably the best things that don't you know they're simple you know and so

56:20.144 --> 56:24.688
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, I think it comes down to what is the behavior and what is the need that's being met by that.

56:24.748 --> 56:28.191
[SPEAKER_02]: And some of them aren't intuitive, especially ones that have to do with like screens.

56:28.892 --> 56:31.274
[SPEAKER_02]: Those ones tend to scratch a lot of itches for us.

56:31.434 --> 56:45.626
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, a lot of this, you know, getting the wins, the stimulation, the checking out, the social connection, those things all can get met in that computer and your pocket, you know, and that's a really hard one to replicate.

56:45.706 --> 56:48.649
[SPEAKER_02]: So again, we have to figure out like where

56:48.815 --> 56:54.769
[SPEAKER_02]: Where those, you know, where those things are fitting into our lives and how can we be replacing?

56:54.789 --> 56:57.796
[SPEAKER_02]: Because if you just remove them, it's not going to work, man.

56:57.876 --> 56:58.318
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not.

56:58.718 --> 57:04.452
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not, you know, it's going to be hard to go from smoking and drinking every day to just going and doing yoga.

57:04.472 --> 57:06.537
[SPEAKER_02]: But if you do yoga, you go fishing.

57:06.517 --> 57:11.344
[SPEAKER_02]: you're meditating, you got a support of spouse, you've got, you know, you've got an ecosystem that's important.

57:11.364 --> 57:14.268
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, yeah, you're setting yourself up, but you've got to understand that.

57:14.468 --> 57:27.207
[SPEAKER_02]: If you don't, it's just this elusive thing that just sort of shows up, you know, because again, you've got the overwhelmed pattern and you have a breakup, you move, you know, economy, like something happens like, you've got to know that pattern is going to get triggered.

57:27.327 --> 57:27.868
[SPEAKER_02]: Very soon.

57:28.328 --> 57:28.749
[SPEAKER_02]: It's coming.

57:29.149 --> 57:30.972
[SPEAKER_02]: So what are you going to do?

57:32.200 --> 57:44.180
[SPEAKER_00]: I vaguely spot on because when I went from I was 350 pounds smoking two packs a day drinking myself to sleep, yoga, you talked about replacing something, it was like I had to challenge myself.

57:44.220 --> 57:50.490
[SPEAKER_00]: I think there's probably a really good parallel between a physical challenge and overcoming an addiction.

57:50.790 --> 57:54.276
[SPEAKER_00]: This is anecdotal, I guess, because it's my experience.

57:54.256 --> 57:58.691
[SPEAKER_00]: But the thing that I found was I would go to do bigger and hot yoga.

57:58.811 --> 58:02.021
[SPEAKER_00]: There's an amazing facility, my friend, Hagen owns an Indianapolis.

58:02.122 --> 58:04.088
[SPEAKER_00]: It's called the hot room if you happen to be an Indianapolis.

58:04.148 --> 58:05.031
[SPEAKER_00]: Very stimulating, right?

58:05.212 --> 58:07.118
[SPEAKER_02]: The heat and all of that is very similar.

58:08.161 --> 58:10.443
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, it was fitting because I grew up wrestling.

58:10.543 --> 58:16.510
[SPEAKER_00]: And so for 10 years of my childhood, I was in a scorching hot, disgusting room sweating, wrestling.

58:16.850 --> 58:20.914
[SPEAKER_00]: And so it was like, you can't smoke cigarettes and go and be in one of those rooms.

58:21.154 --> 58:22.136
[SPEAKER_00]: You just can't.

58:22.716 --> 58:27.041
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just such an awful experience, especially if you're doing like a hard flow, right?

58:27.481 --> 58:33.027
[SPEAKER_00]: There was like, okay, well, I'm slowly getting out of cigarettes, but then it was like, all right, the next physical challenge would come.

58:33.467 --> 58:34.608
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, but I'm still drinking.

58:34.649 --> 58:37.071
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm fucking waking up, hung over every single day.

58:37.051 --> 58:37.932
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, what do I need to do?

58:38.072 --> 58:39.094
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm a new CrossFit.

58:39.114 --> 58:40.856
[SPEAKER_00]: Now I'm doing yoga and CrossFit.

58:40.876 --> 58:48.928
[SPEAKER_00]: And then the thing that happened to Steve, I went, yoga and CrossFit became a certified personal trainer and nutritionist got jacked.

58:49.208 --> 58:52.173
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm talking about working out constantly.

58:52.553 --> 58:54.336
[SPEAKER_00]: I had replaced addiction with addiction.

58:54.776 --> 58:56.519
[SPEAKER_00]: And then it was like, I got balance.

58:56.539 --> 58:57.741
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I was out of balance.

58:57.761 --> 59:00.104
[SPEAKER_00]: I was just always trying to figure out the thing that works for me, right?

59:00.565 --> 59:03.649
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think most people are going through that.

59:03.629 --> 59:15.698
[SPEAKER_00]: I, I work at, I look at everything in life as and like we can do this and we can do that, not or, but there's a part of me that wonders.

59:15.813 --> 59:19.359
[SPEAKER_00]: Are we are just addicts because we're always chasing dopamine.

59:19.579 --> 59:22.564
[SPEAKER_00]: We're always seeking this thing of pleasure.

59:22.825 --> 59:34.544
[SPEAKER_00]: Like if I told somebody on the backside of doing something difficult, they'll have an orgasm, it's like they'll sit down and write the term paper, but I'm a from like you'll get the degree, they're like, uh, get to it eventually, right?

59:34.944 --> 59:40.774
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I'm just wondering like, are you you've you've had 50,000 brains in front of you.

59:40.754 --> 01:00:10.761
[SPEAKER_02]: Are we all just addicts try to navigate that I think addicts the challenges is that addiction Has a definition of course just like anything in the DSM right so we have you know substance addiction and behavioral Dictions, but I think that you're you know, you're on to something in the way that I've worded it It's not so much that we're addicted, but we're we're seeking to have our needs met Okay, we're all trying to get our needs met we don't do things that don't meet our needs

01:00:10.741 --> 01:00:14.253
[SPEAKER_02]: There is a sporting goods store here in town.

01:00:14.514 --> 01:00:15.136
[SPEAKER_02]: It's called Shields.

01:00:15.216 --> 01:00:16.861
[SPEAKER_02]: It's an amazing sporting goods store.

01:00:16.881 --> 01:00:18.788
[SPEAKER_02]: I have no affiliation, but it's a very cool store.

01:00:19.089 --> 01:00:19.651
[SPEAKER_02]: You walk in.

01:00:19.711 --> 01:00:22.219
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a giant fairs wheel inside, okay?

01:00:22.925 --> 01:00:24.107
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but it's crazy.

01:00:24.147 --> 01:00:24.708
[SPEAKER_02]: So cool.

01:00:24.728 --> 01:00:25.709
[SPEAKER_02]: We just go there for fun.

01:00:26.210 --> 01:00:27.592
[SPEAKER_02]: But this part of it is not fun.

01:00:27.892 --> 01:00:29.675
[SPEAKER_02]: I could say, Dad, let's go on the fair as well.

01:00:29.996 --> 01:00:32.279
[SPEAKER_02]: And I say, no, son, that's horrifying.

01:00:32.319 --> 01:00:33.561
[SPEAKER_02]: That sounds terrifying.

01:00:33.581 --> 01:00:34.262
[SPEAKER_02]: I will never do that.

01:00:34.422 --> 01:00:36.846
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, like how many ways could I die on that fair as well.

01:00:36.866 --> 01:00:39.810
[SPEAKER_02]: That was probably put together by, you know, some kids or something.

01:00:39.830 --> 01:00:40.251
[SPEAKER_02]: You know what I mean?

01:00:40.271 --> 01:00:41.192
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not going on that.

01:00:41.212 --> 01:00:43.175
[SPEAKER_02]: But to them, that sounds totally fun.

01:00:43.336 --> 01:00:46.300
[SPEAKER_02]: So again, all we're doing is walking around

01:00:46.280 --> 01:00:49.949
[SPEAKER_02]: with these patterns, these filters that we don't know exist, trying to get our needs met.

01:00:50.590 --> 01:00:53.116
[SPEAKER_02]: And we get them met through companionship.

01:00:53.157 --> 01:00:55.482
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think there's brain patterns that match that way.

01:00:55.783 --> 01:00:59.291
[SPEAKER_02]: We get them met through our hobbies, through what we do with our work.

01:00:59.492 --> 01:01:02.078
[SPEAKER_02]: I have a buddy, give me an example, another one.

01:01:02.058 --> 01:01:05.864
[SPEAKER_02]: he's published hundreds of academic papers, hundreds, okay?

01:01:06.686 --> 01:01:10.192
[SPEAKER_02]: If you asked him, he'd say, oh, I'd like contributing to the field, the robot, all of that, whatever.

01:01:10.552 --> 01:01:11.494
[SPEAKER_02]: What's going on underneath?

01:01:11.634 --> 01:01:16.222
[SPEAKER_02]: When you really get to talk to him and you think about it through these filters, is that he has the negative self-referencing patterns.

01:01:16.482 --> 01:01:22.733
[SPEAKER_02]: Someone somewhere, probably, told him he wasn't good enough, so that then he went and got medical degree.

01:01:22.713 --> 01:01:42.561
[SPEAKER_02]: Then he went on and got another degree after that, then he went on and published hundreds of papers after that and it's never enough and then when he couldn't publish papers guess what he did he publish a book and just keeps going and going and going and going and this is this is what I think we do and and if we do if we spin it in a socially acceptable way.

01:01:42.541 --> 01:01:47.246
[SPEAKER_02]: and we become an ultra marathon runner, we're a hero, we're an athlete, we're wonderful.

01:01:47.587 --> 01:01:53.033
[SPEAKER_02]: If we spin it in a, you know, socially not acceptable way, we're, we're junk uncle Joe over here.

01:01:53.093 --> 01:01:53.614
[SPEAKER_02]: You know what I mean?

01:01:53.654 --> 01:01:56.817
[SPEAKER_02]: It was just like, you know, comes to Christmas, drunk all the time, you know?

01:01:56.978 --> 01:02:00.702
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's the same brain patterns, we're just getting our needs met in different ways, you know?

01:02:00.942 --> 01:02:06.729
[SPEAKER_02]: So some of the really underarounds brains that we see like in your case, probably not always that way.

01:02:06.789 --> 01:02:09.392
[SPEAKER_02]: My guess is they came after your your head injuries.

01:02:09.372 --> 01:02:13.436
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, is we seek that stimulating type of thing.

01:02:13.476 --> 01:02:21.805
[SPEAKER_02]: So again, we could go to your example of the movies, like what type of movie am I going to want to go see versus what type of movie are you going to want to go see?

01:02:22.165 --> 01:02:23.867
[SPEAKER_02]: And we do this all throughout our lives.

01:02:23.887 --> 01:02:27.410
[SPEAKER_02]: This is like, I don't understand how we ever agree on anything.

01:02:27.871 --> 01:02:32.415
[SPEAKER_02]: I have no idea because we're all filtering the world through all these different filters that we have.

01:02:32.575 --> 01:02:39.042
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's like if you walk into my office at 74 degrees right now, you're going to like, man, it's in hot in here.

01:02:39.275 --> 01:02:47.285
[SPEAKER_02]: We're both right we said every man in every man in our relationship in history and so I have a funny story about that.

01:02:47.305 --> 01:02:51.630
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll tell you something but they're we're both right we're both right.

01:02:51.770 --> 01:03:01.182
[SPEAKER_02]: Neither of us is more right than the other person you see I'm saying so we're just going around trying to get our needs met in volunteering in charity work.

01:03:01.853 --> 01:03:08.625
[SPEAKER_02]: and people that do nonprofits and all this like humanitarian stuff, they have patterns in their brain that make them feel good when they do that.

01:03:08.885 --> 01:03:09.446
[SPEAKER_02]: You see what I'm saying?

01:03:09.687 --> 01:03:11.590
[SPEAKER_02]: And they look like, yeah, yeah.

01:03:11.991 --> 01:03:14.696
[SPEAKER_02]: And so you see that work and you just like, oh man, this is amazing.

01:03:14.716 --> 01:03:15.377
[SPEAKER_02]: This is great.

01:03:15.397 --> 01:03:16.659
[SPEAKER_02]: No, I think it's great, too.

01:03:16.879 --> 01:03:20.205
[SPEAKER_02]: But what they've done is they've leveraged their brain patterns for good.

01:03:20.546 --> 01:03:21.107
[SPEAKER_02]: You know what I'm saying?

01:03:21.327 --> 01:03:26.376
[SPEAKER_02]: As opposed to somebody else who leverages that pattern and they, you know, just

01:03:26.356 --> 01:03:44.922
[SPEAKER_02]: complain all the time and they just wine and mone and you know everything sucks and the world's coming to an end and you know whatever and it's like they're the same brain patterns Just like how are we gonna meet those needs so when you talk about everyone being an addict I think it's really spot on that we are just addicted to feeling

01:03:44.902 --> 01:03:49.690
[SPEAKER_02]: of scratching those edges, scratching those edges that we have and we just don't know it.

01:03:49.710 --> 01:03:56.281
[SPEAKER_02]: In some of them look extreme, you know, the, you know, tattoos and Harley's and all of the stuff like it seems very extreme.

01:03:56.301 --> 01:04:04.035
[SPEAKER_02]: And then there's other people that are addicted to like sitting in a hammock with a book, you know, and just listening to classical music, you know, and it's like, what's the difference, man?

01:04:04.055 --> 01:04:05.998
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, that's here's one way we can explain it.

01:04:07.497 --> 01:04:17.633
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know, and it's funny because I, when I interviewed Anna Wimke, who wrote dopamine nation, one of the, one of the things that she was addicted to was reading romance novels.

01:04:18.034 --> 01:04:27.068
[SPEAKER_00]: And you would look at this woman who is a scholar, a PhD, who is like, top of the top in her field, and you would be like, yeah, what?

01:04:27.409 --> 01:04:28.450
[SPEAKER_00]: That's crazy.

01:04:28.791 --> 01:04:33.218
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I interviewed Dr. Gabarbate, who is arguably the leading,

01:04:34.733 --> 01:05:00.606
[SPEAKER_00]: Of cross, the childhood trauma scope, he's like the guy, and this dude was addicted to buying CDs CDs, but come back this like he's an addict and then you look at me and I've shared all of my actions, which is pretty much anything that makes me feel good right and so it's like we all have that in us, but it's like at some point you have to be able to do something with that information.

01:05:00.586 --> 01:05:10.900
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think, I think that's the thing that I got the most out of our conversation and the scan that I did with you was I was like, oh my god, this makes so much more sense.

01:05:11.261 --> 01:05:17.449
[SPEAKER_00]: And then because I'm very type A, I put it into complexity along with the transcript from our conversation.

01:05:17.469 --> 01:05:20.974
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I said, perplexity, make me a life plan.

01:05:20.954 --> 01:05:32.460
[SPEAKER_00]: And so we built my life into a calendar and into a schedule that my team is on board with, that my business partners are on board with, and I was just like, this is how I'm going to operate moving forward.

01:05:33.222 --> 01:05:36.850
[SPEAKER_00]: And there's still struggles because I'm in any assimilation process.

01:05:37.291 --> 01:05:38.794
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think that

01:05:38.774 --> 01:05:46.325
[SPEAKER_00]: the lack of understanding from a baseline is probably keeping people stuck way more than that.

01:05:46.486 --> 01:05:57.542
[SPEAKER_00]: We even understand because you and I are having a conversation that very, very few people who have it and they and they don't understand but I will never understand.

01:05:57.522 --> 01:06:00.625
[SPEAKER_00]: you mentioned earlier, oh, they must have scanned your after these concussions.

01:06:00.965 --> 01:06:02.507
[SPEAKER_00]: Did I play football in the night?

01:06:02.847 --> 01:06:04.789
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, those are a thing.

01:06:04.829 --> 01:06:13.318
[SPEAKER_00]: We watched our heroes like, you know, get locked in a football game and then get back into the game and people cheer them on.

01:06:13.919 --> 01:06:20.505
[SPEAKER_00]: And we know now, I mean, so many professional football players and other athletes say they would never let their children play that sport.

01:06:20.525 --> 01:06:22.247
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I would never let my kid play football.

01:06:22.227 --> 01:06:24.130
[SPEAKER_00]: ever, not in a million years, right?

01:06:24.811 --> 01:06:28.937
[SPEAKER_00]: And I would never, if I go back and time, I would have been like, hey, don't do that.

01:06:29.217 --> 01:06:38.130
[SPEAKER_00]: Because there are moments where like, I'm starting to have flashes of memory loss and I'm starting to have like the little weird things where I put my keys again, right?

01:06:38.271 --> 01:06:43.999
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's like, so I'm doing all these protocols, things you and I have talked about, well, well, but my point is,

01:06:44.148 --> 01:06:45.431
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not just about that.

01:06:45.932 --> 01:06:52.465
[SPEAKER_00]: It's about understanding the baseline of who you are because there's data to support your actions.

01:06:52.966 --> 01:07:03.186
[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't think we've ever been in a space in time where somebody could sit in the reality of who they are and be like, oh, that makes sense now.

01:07:03.166 --> 01:07:09.677
[SPEAKER_00]: And I've always said in order to get to where you want to go, you have to understand how you got to where you are.

01:07:10.218 --> 01:07:15.687
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that the biggest disconnect that we have is people just don't know why they are who they are.

01:07:16.268 --> 01:07:17.670
[SPEAKER_00]: We make these assumptions.

01:07:18.111 --> 01:07:19.072
[SPEAKER_00]: We hope for the best.

01:07:19.153 --> 01:07:20.575
[SPEAKER_00]: We go, all right, this must be why.

01:07:20.956 --> 01:07:29.089
[SPEAKER_00]: But even sometimes there's people who grew up in the same home and have the same exact experiences with,

01:07:29.457 --> 01:07:36.466
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, my great example, my aunt is became a successful person in corporate America.

01:07:36.907 --> 01:07:39.870
[SPEAKER_00]: My mom became a drug addict who died, right?

01:07:40.391 --> 01:07:42.274
[SPEAKER_00]: Same home, same experiences.

01:07:42.754 --> 01:07:51.145
[SPEAKER_00]: One of my uncles went and they became this amazing person in the military and the other one is in prison for life.

01:07:51.732 --> 01:07:52.814
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, same home.

01:07:53.274 --> 01:07:58.321
[SPEAKER_00]: My closest family, my siblings, we've all about our addiction, all of us.

01:07:58.422 --> 01:08:02.528
[SPEAKER_00]: We've all had to go down this path of like figuring this out, all coach people.

01:08:02.788 --> 01:08:04.150
[SPEAKER_00]: And although again, my brother's fine.

01:08:04.530 --> 01:08:06.653
[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, I want to put a gun in my mouth in a single day.

01:08:06.694 --> 01:08:08.997
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, because we all haven't such a different experience.

01:08:09.017 --> 01:08:11.901
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I'm saying all of this to say this.

01:08:11.881 --> 01:08:21.918
[SPEAKER_00]: I would encourage anyone, especially who's made it this far into our conversation today, to highly consider the investment on getting their brain scanned.

01:08:22.499 --> 01:08:34.480
[SPEAKER_00]: Because it is something that for me, I can tell you a certainty, has made my life better almost immediately, and I know that will

01:08:34.460 --> 01:08:41.133
[SPEAKER_00]: and Steve, you and I have no financial affiliation to anything we're talking about neither of us have exchanged money.

01:08:41.153 --> 01:08:43.357
[SPEAKER_00]: There's none of that thing that exists here.

01:08:43.417 --> 01:08:55.320
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just sitting here from the side of the table and Mike and saying, this is an incredible experience that I had and it's made me restructure my life.

01:08:55.300 --> 01:09:04.643
[SPEAKER_00]: It's made me ask different questions, and most importantly, it's made me have a lot of understanding of why I do some of the crazy shit that I do.

01:09:05.244 --> 01:09:10.457
[SPEAKER_00]: And that to me has given me one thing above all, and that's comfort.

01:09:10.437 --> 01:09:22.310
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I'm curious where can people find you, where can they learn more, where can they really step into the next steps of what this looks like if they're filling called to this.

01:09:22.511 --> 01:09:22.711
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

01:09:22.911 --> 01:09:23.392
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, that's great.

01:09:23.412 --> 01:09:24.192
[SPEAKER_02]: That was a great story.

01:09:24.513 --> 01:09:29.619
[SPEAKER_02]: In fact, an hour ago, I didn't know that that had happened that you had even implemented anything that we talked about.

01:09:29.699 --> 01:09:31.040
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's fantastic.

01:09:31.060 --> 01:09:33.643
[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, so great.

01:09:33.623 --> 01:09:35.185
[SPEAKER_02]: The first place is my new book.

01:09:35.205 --> 01:09:36.907
[SPEAKER_02]: We didn't talk much about that.

01:09:36.927 --> 01:09:45.296
[SPEAKER_02]: I think we got so into talking about scans and everything, but my new book, think like a brain as that, think like to brain.com by the time this is out, that should be out.

01:09:46.517 --> 01:09:58.551
[SPEAKER_02]: You can find us at XONEG Solutions, which is where we offer our EG reporting services to clinicians or we can help patients pair with providers who can do this.

01:09:58.632 --> 01:10:04.803
[SPEAKER_02]: And then last, my clinical work is at Holiness Center, which is at HolinessWHOLEHolness.com.

01:10:05.144 --> 01:10:11.476
[SPEAKER_02]: And a great group of providers there, utilized in the scans, and they're really the ones that help me get all this started.

01:10:11.496 --> 01:10:15.984
[SPEAKER_02]: So I owe a lot to that group helping us along the way to get this off the ground.

01:10:16.044 --> 01:10:20.252
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, that's where I'm at, and I really appreciate the time talking to you.

01:10:21.970 --> 01:10:22.913
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, absolutely.

01:10:23.013 --> 01:10:31.296
[SPEAKER_00]: And guys, and you can go to think on broken podcast.com to get more information on all of this in the show notes and think like a brain.

01:10:31.316 --> 01:10:34.765
[SPEAKER_02]: I've comes out with the end of March show March 31 another week.

01:10:35.707 --> 01:10:36.107
[SPEAKER_00]: That's right.

01:10:36.788 --> 01:10:49.663
[SPEAKER_00]: So guys, this is something that if you're in this place in your life and you need more information, even if you're not in a position to go and do the scan, invest in the book at the minimum invest in the book.

01:10:50.084 --> 01:10:54.489
[SPEAKER_00]: And the reason, and again, I know as Amazon affiliate, I'm not going to make a penny from you doing that.

01:10:55.831 --> 01:10:58.093
[SPEAKER_00]: My hope is to help you help yourself.

01:10:58.634 --> 01:11:00.036
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's why we started this show.

01:11:00.076 --> 01:11:02.018
[SPEAKER_00]: Why we interviewed people like Steve.

01:11:02.099 --> 01:11:04.022
[SPEAKER_00]: See, my last question for you, my friend.

01:11:04.843 --> 01:11:07.066
[SPEAKER_00]: What does it mean to you to be a group?

01:11:07.086 --> 01:11:08.388
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's great question, man.

01:11:08.408 --> 01:11:15.678
[SPEAKER_02]: I think for me, it's, it's understanding that these patterns are never brain.

01:11:15.838 --> 01:11:16.639
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, who we are?

01:11:17.620 --> 01:11:22.887
[SPEAKER_02]: Isn't always analyzed in the way that we would like.

01:11:22.947 --> 01:11:28.495
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think as a result, it can show some of the sides of us that maybe we,

01:11:28.812 --> 01:11:33.660
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, that we wouldn't want to show, but in realities, those patterns can be our greatest gifts.

01:11:33.680 --> 01:11:39.309
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think if we, if we understand those and we leverage those, we don't end up like the husky and the desert.

01:11:39.329 --> 01:11:40.912
[SPEAKER_02]: We end up like the husky and the snow.

01:11:41.352 --> 01:11:41.653
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

01:11:41.673 --> 01:11:43.095
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's what I think unbroken is.

01:11:43.115 --> 01:11:45.860
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's about realizing these patterns are who we are.

01:11:46.140 --> 01:11:47.082
[SPEAKER_02]: We don't want to be normal.

01:11:47.102 --> 01:11:48.123
[SPEAKER_02]: We don't want normal brains.

01:11:48.704 --> 01:11:50.988
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't even know if normal exists, but we don't want that.

01:11:51.229 --> 01:11:53.993
[SPEAKER_02]: We want abnormal in the right environment.

01:11:56.757 --> 01:11:57.498
[SPEAKER_00]: beautifully said.

01:11:57.719 --> 01:11:59.121
[SPEAKER_00]: And I could not agree with you more.

01:11:59.622 --> 01:12:03.568
[SPEAKER_00]: I spent most of my life being like I'm a weirdo and I'm like I'm weird.

01:12:03.589 --> 01:12:08.597
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, you know, you know, I want everybody to be able to get to that place for themselves as well.

01:12:09.038 --> 01:12:12.784
[SPEAKER_00]: That said, Steve my friend, thank you so much for being here on Broken Nation.

01:12:12.844 --> 01:12:14.206
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you guys for listening.

01:12:14.827 --> 01:12:20.537
[SPEAKER_00]: If you got anything out of today's episode, I highly, highly recommend that you

01:12:20.517 --> 01:12:33.460
[SPEAKER_00]: go and visit Steve, learn more, grab the book, think like a brain.com, check out his work, consider getting the scan, and most importantly, share this with somebody else because it might transform their lives too.

01:12:34.282 --> 01:12:39.411
[SPEAKER_00]: So until next time, my friends, take care of yourself, take care of each other, and be unbroken.

01:12:40.032 --> 01:12:40.753
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll see ya.

01:12:41.442 --> 01:12:43.966
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much for listening to Think Unbroken.

01:12:44.506 --> 01:12:51.937
[SPEAKER_00]: Please share this episode with someone who could use it and help us move forward in our mission of ending generational trauma in our lifetime.

01:12:52.417 --> 01:13:04.114
[SPEAKER_00]: If you would, please take five seconds to pop on iTunes or Spotify, hit that five star, leave a review, and you can also reach out to us on social, at Michael Unbroken or at Think Unbroken.

01:13:04.534 --> 01:13:08.580
[SPEAKER_00]: And of course, you can check out our YouTube channel at Think Unbroken.

01:13:08.560 --> 01:13:14.723
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for being a part of Unbroken Nation, my friends, and until next time, be Unbroken.