The Power of Being Seen: This Will Change How You See Yourself | with Gregory James Thelian

Michael Unbroken: I constantly see in the world that people are terrified of coming out of their shell. They're terrified of being truly seen as who they are. And we live in this world where the exterior is valued so much. We put so much value on how we look, how we talk, how we dress, the car we drive, the partner we're with, and yet so many of us are suffering from the inside.

We're scared to see who we are. We're especially scared to show it and more so the idea of being seen by someone else and being that vulnerable can feel like death. I'm very excited to talk to you today, Gregory, because one of the things that you do is you help people expose the truth of their beauty, of who they are on the inside, to the outside world as a photographer, Gregory James Thelian welcoming the show, my friend.

Gregory James Thelian: Thank you so much for having me today, Michael. I am so excited to be here and I really do just wanna share this message of how self-perception really is everything. And so many people kind of have the wrong idea of it too. You know, we think it's just fancy clothes dressing up nice, but it's really more about knowing who you really are on the inside.

Michael Unbroken: Yeah. So one of the things I have shared a little bit here over the years is that I was a professional award-winning international wedding photographer for a brief period of my life, of about seven years.

And in that time, the one thing that I would constantly see with people is that the idea of stepping in front of the camera was so terrifying to them. It's interesting because we live in a selfie culture, right? Yeah. We, we live in a culture of, let me put myself in front of the camera, and yet to be seen vulnerably without all of oh, I don't know, all the forethought process that an individual puts in it. It feels very scary. Gregory James Thelian: I mean, it's scary to see yourself, you know, a lot of people are afraid of that. A lot of people are afraid of that kind of person that's like deep inside that we wanna let out, but a lot of times we don't, and we just mask it with all these other things because of everything that we go through in life. And it's kind of a shame. But I love being that person for my clients to help them break out of that and really see that person.

Michael Unbroken: Yeah. And I'd imagine you have, you know, I think about these journeys as always. They always start with ourselves, right? Oh, yes. And there's a requirement, I think, that if you want to help other people do the thing that you're doing, you have to have done it yourself.

So, I guess really my first question, 'cause I love the exploration that we're about to take because as a former photographer and as a seeing firsthand, which, you know, I can sit here and. Co-sign everything we're gonna, well, hopefully everything we're gonna talk about today that I get to co-sign it is because I lived it and I saw it in my clients, thousands of people.

And I saw it in, uh, all of these experiences of people letting down their guards, seeing who they are, and sometimes loving it and sometimes not. And that being like the reality of it. But for me, it was when I started getting in front of the camera, I was very young. It was like maybe nine or 10 years old the first time that I had a camera in my hand.

And it just changed the trajectory of my life. And so I'm just curious, just background and context. What has that journey been like for you and how do you end up becoming this photographer whose whole mission is to help people build confidence and self-love?

Gregory James Thelian: Oh my God. So yeah, there's a lot to unpack with this question. But I don't have that same kind of, you know, amazing photographer journey that all these people do, where it's like you had that camera in your hand when you were really young and this has become your entire life. That was not me at all. I never even thought of photography as a viable option. I actually have a background in graphic and web design.

That's where I really started. But I really loved film and even when I was really young, when I was in high school, I essentially taught myself, you know, like the entire Adobe Creative Suite and everything at that time. And I just love to create. That's all that it was. And it took me a while to realize this, you know, like digging down, doing introspection work.

It took me a while to realize that I just loved creating, and it really wasn't the form because I kind of hated doing graphic and web work because I was creating awesome websites for my clients. But a lot of them were medical doctors and a lot of them just wanted what they wanted. So it's like when you're in that kind of, you know, business, you gotta give your client what they want and they would essentially break their websites.

And I hated that so much. But I ended up buying, uh, it was an expensive camera at the time. It was the Canon T two I and I was. Using it to kind of do like textures and just, I wanted to sell texture packs and do graphic work with it, but I wasn't doing that. So my wife sees the camera sitting on the table just collecting dust and she's like, either learn how to use the damn thing or like sell it, try to get some of your money back.

So I ended up swapping the lens on it and immediately once you do that, you kind of start falling in love with photography. 'cause now you're taking pretty pictures. And I just really loved it. And I didn't even think of boudoir photography as an option either. I started shooting absolutely everything. I started shooting infants when my first daughter was born and I hated that.

It's just so much work. God bless those photographers who take care of infants. I did weddings, another thing I couldn't stand. I just don't wanna deal with Bridezillas. And there's a lot of pressure with weddings and it's like the fact that you were a wedding photographer, it's like, God bless man.

Like those, those are like the hardest gigs to do. But I did product photography, food photography, like sports photography. And I really did enjoy sports photography, but the only sport that I like is, uh, handball now pickleball. But there was like no money to be made in photographing, you know, like American handball.

So wall ball is what they call it here. But I landed on boudoir photography because I heard about it. I started researching it and I saw how empowering it is, you know, as much as I hate that word now, but, you know, that's what kind of sold me on it. And there was some truth to that because like the first model that I worked with, we took some really nice photos.

We did some really good boudoir work, and one of the photos that I took of her was kind of more like a glamor shot. I. And just like the way that it was cropped, it was, you know, from like shoulders up and everything and it looked really nice and I was testing prints at the time and I had this large like 16 by 20 print or whatever, and I couldn't hang it up in my apartment with my newborn daughter and everything.

So I gave it back to that model and Diana was her name and she was so thankful for that because what she ended up doing with that portrait is she sent it to her grandmother who lives in Russia, who never gets to see her. I started getting thanks for my work, and that just felt amazing. So it's like at that moment I knew there was something there. And then just going through the years, I've been doing this for over a decade now, and the thanks that I get from my clients is really why I do this. And helping them see the most amazing side of themselves. And even seeing, you know, that person that they hid inside, that's what it's really all about. And I just love doing it. So that's kind of my story.

Michael Unbroken: Yeah. That's amazing. And you know, I think that it's a very special and unique kind of art. Yeah. Because what you're doing, especially, you know, and it's funny 'cause again, I don't really ever talk about this subject matter of my life on the show, but I've had the fortune of being in rooms with some of the most incredible and well-known photographers in the world and I've had the fortune of being able to be published in magazines and on billboards and a lot of the things and the accolades that come along with that thing.

But what was interesting during my window of time doing it, which was now, it's been quite a while since I did, was it was something that I did not because of passion or fulfillment, but because I could literally sit with someone, show them a photo of themselves, and you could watch for the first time the seeing who they really were.

And that's something that's so hard to explain, right? When I sit here and I say it, I try to articulate it in this conversation. I, I can imagine people going, well, what the hell does that even mean? Right? Yeah. And from my perspective, it was always just, all right, I sat with you. I show you, you are forced into this moment of looking at your own face, right? And or your own body or your own smile, or whatever that is. And in reality in real life, we're always in passing, we're moving quickly. Maybe we look in the mirror to check our hair or our beard or a mustache or our shirt or whatever. But you're not looking at yourself. You're not exposed to who you are.

And there's something about that moment of sitting there and having to have this moment of nakedness, for lack of a better way to phrase it, no pun intended, this nakedness with yourself. You have to see who you are. And sometimes there's a lot of beauty in that talk to, there's so much beauty in that because I'm curious like what has your experience been with that? What do you see happens with people? 

Gregory James Thelian: So the funny thing is just talking about nakedness. So first of all, nobody I shoot needs to be naked. But what I have learned is the more you kind of remove, the more kind of like there's nothing to hide behind at that point. So I do do fine art nudes for some of my clients, and some of those are just like the most eye-opening portraits for them because it, they're not looking at this portrait and saying like, oh my God, I look amazing, but it's because of the dress, or it's because of the outfit, or because of the pose.

I look amazing because this is just me. So there's a lot of power in that too, you know? But even with wardrobe, all that stuff, it's really just seeing who you truly are. And a lot of the time it could be powerful. A lot of the time. It could also be scary, you know, for my clients, because it's essentially like this side of them that's been locked deep down due to trauma, due to life, due to just everything that they've experienced.

It's like you, you kind of put up like this shield of armor around you. And you're doing that to kind of protect yourself, obviously from everything. But when you do that for too long, I notice this in a lot of my clients because a lot of my clients are in education or healthcare. They're loving, caring people.

So it's like they do this for their work and then they go home and they do this for their families, and it's like they built up this shield and they hardly ever have the time to really see them. You know, so they kind of lose themselves. You lose yourself in a family, you lose yourself in giving so much and people get tapped out.

And sometimes people need to be reminded of who that person is. And that's why I love the process that I put together because it really pulls out that emotion and it really helps them understand who they are because it's not just a photo shoot. 'cause there are other boudoir photographers out there, there are other portrait photographers out there, and they'll just kind of, you know, take your photo.

You either like it or you hate it. They don't really help pull out the true emotion behind it. And that's what I love doing so much because it's so much more than just a photo. It's like, even though I am a photographer. And I sell photos. That's not really what I sell. What I sell is that emotion.

What I sell is that experience where you really connect with yourself, and then I capture that side of you, and then I display it for you in the most amazing way possible so that you can't deny it. And in that moment when you really see yourself and there's nothing else around you to allow you to deny it, sometimes that could be scary.

Sometimes you could be afraid of that because now you can't hide behind any of the excuses that you were telling yourself. You know, all these lies that we tell ourselves because of what we've been through in the past, when you see who you truly are, dude, it just changes everything. So it's like I get like all the emotions, you know, the full range of emotions when people have their photo exhibition that I give them, and it's just breathtaking.

And it is something that truly is hard to describe in words, which is why I love capturing everyone's reaction because. Just their reaction, even when they're not speaking, it speaks volumes. You know, that's when you could really see it.

Michael Unbroken: Yeah. And I hear so much of that is you have to take the mask off, right? We wear these masks societally, and I don't think anyone's innocent of it. Right. And I don't think anyone's even intentional in it. I think it's just a part of the world that we live in and we spend so much time. Wearing these big masks was, you talk about this idea of like, this glow up, right?

People are like, yeah, I'm on a glow up. And I'm like, yeah, you might be externally, but internally are you showing up? Are you doing the work? Are you mm-hmm questioning who you are? Are you creating discipline? Are you following through? Are you mm-hmm. All of the things that one has to do to like glow up Because trust me, 'cause I know this firsthand. You can go buy the nicest clothes, the nicest car, the nicest condo, the nicest glasses. You can have it all and be miserable and dark and be a person who's unfulfilled and has no joy or happiness and doesn't know how to pause or rest. And at the end of telling all of it doesn't know who they are.

And I think one of the things that's really tricky about being a person who helps people touch vulnerability is that space can be hard because like they're coming in because they want to have this experience of growth, of seeing themselves. Sometimes it's very superficial and probably it is in the beginning and then it turns into this whole other journey.

When you're working with people, I'm so curious, do you have things that come up that are related to, you know, their trauma experiences? Do you have things that come up that are related to their self-perception? Like what are, what are some of the shifts that you're seeing happening when you have people in front of your camera? It's not just a glow up that they're there for. Right?

Gregory James Thelian: Yeah. You know, so a lot of people just look at boudoir essentially as that kind of glow up. And it's okay to use it that way. You know, other photographers do it that way. It's just a. Like, not necessarily a quick way, but it's a straightforward path to helping yourself feel more sexy or desirable.

And that's okay on its own. But I do go deeper than that, and that's why I have a three day process for my clients. It's not just you come in for your photo shoot and then I send you digitals and you pick which ones you like. It's actually an in-depth process that took me years to kind of create. And the day one is super special because this is where it's an in-depth consultation that I do with my clients, and it's a process that I created that I call the personality reveal.

And what this is, it's literally just a set series of questions and prompts that I guide them through. But I specifically designed this in a way where it gets to the core of who my clients are. And it even goes deeper than that to help them uncover the essence of what really makes them them. And the reason why I created this was actually to help myself come out of a deep depression.

So I was dealing with a lot at the time. I just had like my two daughters and I was working from home, so it was daddy daycare and going through this process. I actually had to build it out first because my insurance didn't cover therapy at the time and I felt lost. So I love psychology. I did a lot of research and I just started asking myself these introspective questions.

So once I started doing that on my own and I noticed that it helped me, it helped me realize a lot about myself, and it helped me realize that, you know, I felt like I couldn't have time for myself, that my family was weighing me down. And the great thing about this process is once you learn how to do it, I kind of like to guide my clients through it.

They're allowed to do it on themselves every six months, every year. And it's amazing how so much could change in a short period of time. Because once again, I did this to help myself get out of that depression. So it shined a huge light on everything that I felt was wrong with me. And once I was able to do that, it was very easy for me to kind of start connecting the dots and finding all the solutions.

It's like, okay, idiot, you feel like you don't have enough time for yourself? Give yourself some more time. So I worked with my wife. We were able to do that, you know, it was like 20 minutes then an hour, then like a day, and we made it work out but even though I felt that way, I didn't know it a hundred percent.

Which is why doing introspection work really is so powerful because it brings everything out. And once it's out, then you could identify it, then you could tackle it. But you mentioned about like my clients do, like their past traumas come up a lot of the times. Yeah. A lot of the time it's not even provoked.

Like the questions that I ask have nothing to do with like your past traumas or anything like that, but it does come out, you know, and it's mainly because you're talking to a stranger and it's very easy for these things to just come out when you're talking to a stranger and when you're coming to somebody to kind of help you really figure out who you are and capture that side to you.

Yeah, it comes out, but you know, one of the things that I did learn is it's actually very easy for people to kind of just get all their traumas out and talk about it, but when they really see themselves. That's normally the time when they kind of break. You know, you might think that people are gonna break down when they're talking about their past and the experiences that they've been through.

And yeah, tears do come out quite often. Sometimes I even had somebody tearing up when I was just texting them on Instagram, and I just kind of have that effect on people sometimes, and I'm sorry about that to all of my clients. But it's all from a loving, caring place and it's okay to tear up, it's okay to feel vulnerable.

It's okay to kind of even mourn that side of you, you know? Because once again, like when you build up that armor. You're kind of suffocating. A part of you, and I notice this a lot in my clients, you know, they're kind of suffocating themselves and they wanna get in touch with that side again. And they wanna see that person.

They wanna see that lively person that's inside of them. You know, they wanna see that boss bitch. They want to see everything. They wanna see their strengths, and I love giving that to them. So yeah, we kind of do go through a lot of the bad, but it's always to get to the good core that really is inside of everybody.

Michael Unbroken: Yeah, and I think that being seen can be very difficult for people. A hundred percent because especially, you know, you talked about your work with a lot of caregivers and people who Yeah. Are offering themselves up to the world. Well, those people as a blanket statement generally always put themselves dead last.

Yeah. They're the last to take care of themselves. Last to take the break, last to do everything, you know what they need, and this can be a space of putting themselves first. And being seen is a scary perspective for anyone, in general. When you're navigating that journey, like break that down.

What does being seen mean? Like what does it look like in this context? What is the experience that people are having? Because when I think about it, I sit here and I coach people, right? What I do is I sit and I have conversations with people. I give them the space to be honest. Like that's the core of what it really is. And I think people believe that as a coach and this podcast host and the things that I've been doing for so long, that what I'm doing is transforming people's lives. That's not true at all. Right? I don't do that. People do that for themselves. Yes. I bear witness. And in that I help them see possibility for a lot of people when they sit down with me, whether it be a, a pre-interview caller, whether it be six months into a coaching program, what they're getting and what they're experiencing is something that they were denied. And that's the thing that I think is what people desire.

Gregory James Thelian: It really is. And you know, this brings up a past client of mine. I am not necessarily going through my entire process, but like the third day of my process, what I do for my clients is I set up a private photo exhibition for them. So I already have all the best portraits from them, printed, matted, framed, and just on display.

This way my clients get to walk into a literal gallery of themselves, and I had this one client and she really kind of really put things in perspective for me on what I was really doing for my clients because. As you know already, I like to record everyone's reactions and I wish I kept the camera rolling for her, but she was just really into it and she was breaking down.

She was in tears, but in a good way. And then when I stopped filming, she started saying something to herself, kind of like over and over. And like I leaned in and I overheard her. She's looking at her portraits and she's saying, I'm worthy. And she kept saying that to herself. And I'm just looking at her and I'm like, yeah, you are worthy, you're so much better than everything that you've been through. And she went through the worst in life. You know, like when she explained to me everything that she's been through, it was literally like all the worst things that you could imagine happening to a child. All the worst things you could imagine happening to a woman.

And it seemed like it was never stopping for her, but once she saw these portraits and she started saying to herself that she was worthy, it's like, yeah, you are. And like this is what it's all about. It's about feeling that worth. It's about feeling like you are more than, it's about feeling like, you know, you're not broken.

And it's just so powerful. And I don't even know if I answered your question fully with that. I kind of lost track, but I did wanna bring that up because it's so much more than just photos when you do it the right way, you know? And like you mentioned how you do your coaching and everything. That's literally kind of what I do and I just infuse it with photography too.

One of my consultations with a client went on as long as six hours. I normally schedule them for like three hours, but this one just kept going and you kind of don't even realize the time is fading. It just went by so fast. And it was just a lot that we were going through, that we were learning about her a lot, that she was learning about herself.

And once again, I'm just kind of like that mirror. For them. It's not me saying, oh, you are this, you are that. It's really you telling me everything that you are, and I'm just connecting the dots for you. Like, I literally write everyone's answers for the personality reveal. It's up on a giant whiteboard that I have, and they're seeing everything that is them.

I'm seeing it too. I'm just giving them my thoughts and they're putting it all together for themselves. And from there we kind of form, you know, like three or four main character traits that really embody that individual. And that's what I aim to capture when we have their photo shoot and that's what they end up seeing at the end.

Michael Unbroken: Yeah. And then ultimately get to be seen. One of the things that you said, I wrote down, 'cause it, I think it's something that needs to be walked into a little bit more. You know, you talk about this client who sees herself and she's saying, I am worthy. Yeah. Do you find that a lot of people feel unworthy in the world?

Gregory James Thelian: A hundred percent. So much. And it literally pains me because it seems like it's every woman. It seems like every woman who I talk to, every woman who comes to me and sits down with me and hears me out, has been through some sort of trauma in their lives. Even the people in my life, you know, are close to me when I talk to them and actually get deep, it seems like everybody's been through something horrible and it's a shame.

And yeah, going through these traumas, going through these events, going through this abuse. You lose that sense of self-worth, you lose track of who you really are because then you start defining yourself and you start tying your identity to, you know, this trauma, this abuse, whatever you might have gone through.

And you kind of become a victim in some way, shape, or form, when deep down inside, you know, the strength and the air and you know, there's something bigger, something deeper for you. And I help kind of just get you back in touch with that.

Michael Unbroken: When we look at ourselves though, it's so difficult because we, this is human nature and I'm, this is one of the things I've never been able to quite pinpoint.

I feel like I'm pretty good at pinpointing most of the reasons why as humans, we do the things that we do. The one that I have struggled with over the years is why do people. Always find themselves geared towards their flaws and not the things that make them fantastic. And my, my thesis around this is it comes from school, right?

It comes from childhood, the elementary school community, people around you where it's never good enough. You're always rated, you're always in comparison with the other kids. You're always being put up either on a pedestal or taken off of one. You're never really given the space to just be you. Yeah. And so instead of, you know, seeking the self approval of, Hey, this is who I am, accept me as who I am, we nitpick, we look at our flaws.

We go for all the details. Right. And we miss out on that really key part, which is our power. When I think about that, it kind of pisses me off because it's like, who's to say we should have to compare ourselves to each other? We don't live the same lives, we don't do the same things. We don't have these same experiences. And we're constantly under a microscope. Now, obviously, neither of us are women. I cannot speak from the fucking woman's experience. I have no idea what that's like 0%. I also have no idea what it's like to be in your experience. The only experience that I know is mine, and I used to be this very, very detail oriented person, but the details were always about the things that weren't good about me, that I perceived as not good about me that I looked at that were like, oh yeah, you could be better here. Or This is a problem, or that's a problem. And it's so much like not stepping into strength and power. Yeah. And this ability to, to be yourself and I, I think that's just stripped away at such a young age. It's, and now more than ever, especially with the microscope of social media.

And there are days literally where if it weren't for my team having our social media and taking care of it, I wouldn't have it at all. Yeah. I would delete it all. Yeah. The only thing that would exist would be this podcast. Yeah. Because it's the scrutiny you are under for being a human being, mind you, by people who would never say it to your face is mind-boggling to me. And so we have, it doesn't matter, you could have the perfect relationship. People will find your flaw. You could have an amazing body. People will find the flaw. You can just be trying to be nice and help people. People will roast you to death just for being kind. Yeah. And so we are, we live in this space where it's like, it is a flaw forward thinking society that is based on the backside of you never being good enough.

How do we help people find their power? Like how do you really, and I don't mean that in this superfluous way, this superficial way, this way that people talk Oh no, you mean it in the real way. Yeah. Like, how the fuck do you like care about yourself enough to go and do what you need to do? That to me is power.

Gregory James Thelian: I love this so much because a lot of people do not talk about this enough and why is it so much easier for us to talk about our weaknesses than our strengths? You know, this is actually like one of the questions that I ask my clients during their personality reveal. I ask 'em to list out their strengths, list out their weaknesses, nine outta 10 times.

It's always easier for people to just dump out their weaknesses, and we also, we always have to kind of circle back to their strengths. Okay. The reason why I believe this is, is because, yeah, you're a hundred percent right. It is kind of like how we grow up and we're constantly always told what we're doing wrong, what's wrong with us, how you need to be quieter, how you need to be this way, how you need to be that way, whatever it might be.

And it's a shame, you know, because then we start telling ourselves that once we hear it enough from other people, then we start believing it. And once we start believing all the negativity, once we start believing that people are saying, this is a weakness of mine, now we start identifying that as a weakness of ourselves and we forget about the strengths.

It's very easy for us to forget about the strengths when we're just caring about other people and not caring about ourselves. So we're constantly focused on doing, doing, doing for everyone else, trying to live up to everyone else's standards when we're not taking the time to be like, okay, what the hell are my standards?

How do I want to live? What's the life that I want to do? And that actually is something that I kind of helped a couple people figure out for themselves through this process. But people finding their flaws, it's so much easier. It's naturally easier to be negative and destructive than it is to be creative and positive.

It just is kind of like a rule of life, sadly. But the more you kind of work it is like a muscle of reminding yourself of your strengths, of reminding yourself of your power. The more and more it comes out and the more and more positive you can be. But shit, also, just living in New York, everybody's so cynical and everybody is just always ragging on everyone.

And it sucks. I hate it. You know? I don't want to be that way. So I've always been an optimist. I've always been the one who's also been taken advantage of for his optimism. But I started learning how I could use it to help other people and show people. It's like, no, you actually do have all these strengths.

Now, yes, as men, we cannot speak on behalf of women and like everything that they go through, but as men, we literally see women differently. Okay? We see women differently than they see themselves in the way that they see their peers. Okay? And this is one of the most fundamental reasons why I love doing what I do so much because a lot of the time.

Women will be super critical of themselves. And yes, it is because of social media, it is because of advertising. It is because of all these things. It's because of everything you went through in your past. But it makes it so much harder for them to look at themselves and see the positivity, to see their strengths.

So when they look in the mirror, most of the time they're just seeing negativity. They're seeing like, oh, you know, like the bags under my eyes are too deep, and like all these other things. And it's like, no, like you're beautiful us men. We literally. See people differently. We see women differently. We kind of have a built-in filter in our eyes, and it's not necessarily like a filter in our eyes, it's really just in our brain.

Our brains kind of rework what we see to limit the information. So a lot of the time, even with my wife, you know, she'll say things like, she has all these flaws and I literally cannot see them until she points them out. And then I'm focused on it and it's like, yeah, okay, now I see that. But had she not mentioned anything to me, it's something I would've never seen.

And I see this in a lot of my clients, you know, who are married. It's like their husbands will always say how much they love them, how beautiful they are, but the actual client doesn't see it. So I ended up doing this for my wife. I walked her, I walked her through the entire three day process that I created for our 15 year anniversary actually, and I.

When she saw everything, she was kind of breaking down in tears and she ended up saying, I never thought I could look this beautiful. And then I told her, I'm like, but this is how I always see you. And it wasn't a lie. It was the legitimate truth. Like, this is how I see her. I see her as being this beautiful.

And then she started to break down into tears and I had to cut the video, so I didn't get that on camera. But, you know, it's a hundred percent true. And we are, everyone knows we are our own worst enemies. We kind of just need more supportive, more positive people in our lives to tell us like, you are good.

You are amazing. And it's a shame that we don't have that, you know? It's so easy to be on the negative side of things. It's so easy to rip people apart online when you don't see them than it is to help build them up.

Michael Unbroken: I agree. And I think it's beautiful the work that you do, and I've, I've had the honor of getting to know people who specifically in the photography industry, do what you do and they're some of the most gentle, kind, good people. Not that some of 'em aren't the opposite of that because that is the nature of the world. Yes. But generally speaking, it's one of those things where, because you are seeing people in their most vulnerable state, and I come back to this 'cause there's a point that I wrote that I want to get to.

When you are always looking at your flaws, when you are always in that space of negativity, you are under everyone else's perception of what standards are, of standards, of beauty, of standards, of living, of standards, of partnership, of standards, of everything else. and I'll say this contextually, I love America.

I mean, for me. As a boy who grew up with drug addict, alcohol parents who were homeless most of his childhood, who did not graduate high school, it's almost impossible that I could have the life that I have. I don't know that I could have created this life had I been in any other country in the world. So I have this foundational love for the ability that it is a country where you can figure it out.

However, caveat and I will add this, it is one of the most negative places on planet Earth. It is full of the most negative, belittling small thinking people. Imaginable, and that is this idea of being stuck in the matrix. And so you talked about New York, especially people being so cynical. It's like, yes, there's cynics because they've missed the point.

I think so many of us, and I'm guilty of this too, and this is why I have had to leverage this, this travel experience of mine to continue to always go and be grounded into the world and see what it's like when you sit with people who aren't obsessed with things that don't matter. I'll share a quick story with you.

So, I haven't really photographed anything in a long time. I have had a camera with me, but you know, that experience of like, I. It's a filling. If you, if you're a photographer, you get it. If you're not, you're like, what are these guys talking about? Yeah. So anyway, I get that filling. It hasn't happened in a while. I grab my phone, I go out and shoot 'cause my phone is my camera as Chase Jarvis says “the best camera you have is the ones with you.”

I take my camera with me. I'm out shooting and I'm in Vietnam. I see this woman, she's on a bicycle. She's covered with rice bags on the back and she has traditional garb on, and she's in the middle of this busy street, motorbikes everywhere, but just her on the bike.

And it's this phenomenal shot. I step into the side of the road, I grab the shot, and it's actually one of the first photos. I've taken a lot of pictures, but it's one of the first photos I've taken in a long time. And so I come home, I toss it up on the computer, I open it up in the Lightroom, I'm looking at it and I notice something that I didn't see when I took the shot. 'cause I was looking at her face. I wasn't looking at the rest of her. She had on and, and mind you, my guess would be that this woman is a low, if any wage worker in Vietnam. That is just the nature of it. I'm gonna call it what it is. Because of the context of what I saw. Her clothes were tattered and torn. She was clearly unbagged, there was trash, you know, on the bike along with these rice bags. And so I put the photo in, I'm looking at the photo and I realize she has Louis Vuitton flip flops on. Oh wow. Now let's think about this for a second.

In America we have put commerce ahead of people. We have put things ahead of our relationship. We have put stuff in front of self in America, we have put so much impetus on this idea of the things that represent our character and who we're capable of being. Louis Vuitton flip flops in the states. Those are probably 1500 bucks. This woman who probably does not have $1,500.

Now again, this is a guess. I don't know. I don't know her, haven't met her, haven't talked to her. Just context. I have enough context to make this supporting idea she has on Le Vuitton flip flops. Chances are they're probably not real. Who cares if they were real? Maybe they fell off the back of a truck.

Who cares? She paid $1,500 for 'em. Who cares? Don't know. But what I do know, and the reason that I'm saying this is because when I travel the world and I'm in places and I see people in nature and the core who they are, those flip flops, whether they're Louis Vuitton or have nothing to do with their core 'cause they don't actually care here. Yeah. Like, that's the thing, they don't care what you wear, they don't care how educated you are or are not, they don't care about the shoes on your feet, they care about the quality of the character of your person. And that's the way it's supposed to be, and we have lost that. So when I hear this thing where people are like, in depthly touching their flaws instead of the goodness of them, I'm like, why are you holding yourself to other people's standards? Trust me, I own Louis Vuitton shoes. They did not make me a better or worse person. Right. They did not change my life. They did not do anything for me at all. No. That my Nikes can't do.

Gregory James Thelian: Exactly. The most that it can do is make you feel good for the moment. You know, because it's like, oh, I spent money on myself. I treated myself like this. 

Michael Unbroken: I love them, by the way. Look for context. I love them, they're the most comfortable shoes I've ever worn. Well, there you go. They're also a pair of shoes that I bought as a gift to myself. Yes, right. You know, and I think that there's that element of it, but. I guess because I have a little bit of a deeper sense of freedom. Like I don't care if you like me because of the sh*t that I own.

Gregory James Thelian: Exactly. And that's where a lot of people fail because a lot of people build themselves up like, I have to have these things. I need to have that bag. I need to have that car. I need to have that status. And it's not true. You know? Do those things make you feel better sometimes? Maybe for a short period of time?

Is it really who you are? Is it truly that important to you? Most of the time it isn't. And it's a shame that a lot of people don't realize that and that a lot of people aren't questioning that about themselves. You know, like I just went shopping with my brother and he introduced me to this. Pretty expensive store.

What is it? Rag and Bone and oh my God, like the quality of their stuff is amazing. I wish I could have bought more shirts. I ended up getting one that was on sale off the rack or whatever. And it was amazing. But like, he ended up buying all of them. And it wasn't necessarily because of status, it was just because of good quality.

But a lot of people do it because of the status, because it is a symbol and because it makes them feel better even in just the moment, feel better, but it's not lasting at all. It's super fleeting. You know? It's like after you get that expensive car and you drive it around for a little bit, you lose that good feeling and you're just left with who you are.

And if you're not happy with who you are, it doesn't matter what you buy, it doesn't matter what you get. It doesn't matter what you attain. If you're not happy with yourself, you're not happy. It's that simple.

Michael Unbroken: Why is what you do different? Because I hear you say that. And then I think about someone having a portrait of themselves on their bathroom wall,  and they go, yeah, but that's the same thing. But it's different somehow it is different. 

Gregory James Thelian: So it's different in the way of my process because I really do help figure out who my clients are deep down. And once I know that information, then I could capture that. If I skip that part completely, I'll still take good looking photos of the person, but it's not gonna hit the same way.

They're not gonna feel it. They're gonna look at it and be like, okay, yeah, I look good. But they're not gonna be like, oh my God, this is me. So because of the process that I put through, because I built up the emotional impact behind it, now it's a portrait that every time that they look at it, they're like, holy sh*t. Like that is me. Yes. This is what I need in my life. This is what I need to wake up to. And I have clients who do have this framed like over their beds and everything, and it's a constant reminder. Okay, that's what it is. It's not just like, okay, this is a good picture. You know, you took this photo of me in this amazing looking, you know, location or whatever.

It's them. And the only way you get that is by spending the time with the client. You know, one of the things that I sadly learned about the whole booed water industry once I started getting into it, is that there are a lot of creeps out there. A lot of the male photographers out there are just creeps and they're doing it for nefarious reasons.

And that's always kind of like the first barrier that I have to break through with my clients. It's like, nope, I'm actually one of the good guys. I'm here to help you through this and everything. I'm married, it's gonna be 18 years, in August that I'm married. You know, so that's not why I'm doing this.

I'm doing this to literally help people because this is what I was told boudoir photography was supposed to do, and with the process that I created, that's exactly what it does. Okay. And when you do it the right way, it's so powerful. I literally can't do it any other way. Every time I tried to do mini sessions or whatever, or it's like, oh, we have like this fun, cute theme.

It never hit the same way. And my clients didn't even want it. Like I never really booked those shoots because they're like, no, I want the full experience. Like, I want you to pull the core out of me and I want to see that person because I feel that person inside of me and she's not coming out. And once you're able to capture that, then it comes out. Now it's real. It's physical proof, you know it's on your wall, it's staring you dead in the face and you literally can't deny it. And when you get to that point, when you cannot deny who you really are, that's when everything really shifts for you. And that's like the whole power of it. You know?

Photography can be so powerful. And it's amazing because when you think about it, it's like, eh, it's just a photo. You know? How powerful could it really be? But once again, when done the right way, when captured through, oh my God, this is a quote that I love so much and I used to have it hanging in my studio and it said that beauty is simply reality seen through the eyes of love.

Okay? And I love helping my clients learn to love themselves so that when they do see themselves, they see all of that beauty, they see all of their strengths, they see all of those defining characteristics that are so much more than the pain that they went through or the trauma that they experienced.

You know, you are more than that and you know that, you know that more than almost anybody. 'cause you've been through everything. You know, you've been through some of the worst stuff that a human being could go through. And you are on a better side of that now, you know? And it's because you're in touch with who you are.

Michael Unbroken: And I mean, it doesn't mean that I'm always not questioning Yeah. You know, and I question myself all the time. Here's how I kind of framed it. I was talking to someone the other day, and it's like when you open this door to whoever it is that you are for the first time. Some people do it when they're very, very young, which I find to be incredibly rare, unless they have a very supportive environment. Most people do it in their late twenties, early thirties, but the vast majority of people I see don't come until the fifties. But regardless of all of that, the point is, the thing that I see in people is that when they open the door of choosing to figure out who they are, the process daily is, will you walk through the door again?

Because once you see it, it can't be unseen. Right? It's the thing that can't be unseen. Yeah. And so when I'm, when I'm sitting across and I'm, I'm working with someone and they're in this moment of self discovery and introspection, the thing that I try to tell them is it doesn't matter what happened in the past.

And the reason why I say that is because we can't control the past. We can't change the past, but we leverage it and we allow it to be the reason why we're stuck. We allow it to be the reason why we can't have the things we want in life, whether consciously or subconsciously, but the game becomes okay.

Now I see myself for the first time. I understand and I can have awareness about those things that happened in the past. The real question becomes, even with all that information and data, can I go through the door again today? And that's when I see I have a portrait of myself that I had a friend do, it was the first custom suit I'd ever bought myself.

And, you know, I think, glamorized photography for men can also be as powerful. It wasn't brutal. No, it totally can be. But it was this experience 'cause I bought this custom suit. I had these beautiful shoes. I wanted to do a photo shoot. And in seeing myself in that moment, even for me, and I think that shoot was probably seven years ago probably.

I still use those photos today. I'm, I'm a little bit grayer, but like, you know, I look at those and I'm like, okay. That moment for me was significant because it was a moment where I was stepping into myself even more. Yes. I had this really, there was a beautiful photographer, Mary Beth Abel, and she photographed me and it was one of those experiences where.

As I was in front of her camera, I was like, oh my God, I forgot how naked this feels. Yeah. But it's also the most empowering thing you could ever imagine doing, because actually as a client, as the person being photographed, you're the one in control. because you are the one who walked into the door.

You are the one who made the decision. That's the same thing that happens when my clients come and work with me. I go, you're actually in control of this. I'm not. I'm just here to proctor the journey. Exactly. I'm just here to show you what you can't see. Yes. it's like almost literally the same thing you do.

Except my medium happens to be, you know, my, my brain less so than my camera. I know we're running out of time, but I want to ask this question. Oh, are we okay? We look at these ideas, these tools, right? So a camera's a tool, a microphone is a tool. We have all these tools. You mentioned some people doing nefarious things. These tools can be used for good or they can be used for evil. Like we know that exactly. What is it specifically about this medium that gets people to break down their guard to see themselves, to let go of the parts that they're hiding? Like what is it about this that is so different from talk therapy, than a coach, than you know, all of the other things people can do?

Gregory James Thelian: Yeah. It's physical. It's as simple as that. It's a physical medium. Okay. And it's visual. So you have both of those things going for it. Okay. Because once again, yes, I sit down with my clients.

I have these deep consultations and. Sometimes that can be enough. But when you're able to translate that into something that is physical and visual, it's a constant reminder. And that's what makes it so much more powerful because we are visual creatures, okay? We have eyes, and that's how we interpret the world.

So if you interpret the world through your eyes and you're looking at yourself in the mirror and you're hating on yourself, having a portrait where you look at yourself, where you're not hating on yourself anymore could completely change everything. And it's literally just that simple. It's physical and visual. That's what makes it powerful.

Michael Unbroken: Yeah, that actually makes a lot of sense. And because it sparks a memory right, it does. 

Gregory James Thelian: It does spark that memory. So like you're reminded of all the good times that you had of the experience, but you are also reminded of all your strengths.

Okay. So once again, going back to that, why do we always put out our flaws? This is a way for you to essentially document your strengths and relive them on a day to day basis. Because yeah, it is very hard living up to this on that day to day like you were talking about. But you know, if you have it staring at you, if you have it up on your wall, if you have an album of it that you go to every day, it really helps reinforce that.

Michael Unbroken: Yeah. It's powerful and, and your work is, is very, very well done because Oh, thank you. You know, one, one of the things, you know, again, I have the ability to, as a photographer and having been in this. That space for 30 years of my life. I know the difference between the scumbags and the people who are genuine.

And you can actually see it in their work, which is actually that's a whole other conversation for another day. It really is.

Gregory James Thelian: And it's funny that you mention that. 'cause now that I think about it, it's like, yeah, I actually can tell that now. It's like when you see it, you're just like, I don't know if she had a good experience or not on this photo shoot.

Michael Unbroken: That's exactly right. You know what it's been wonderful to have this conversation and you know, it's been such a pleasure. I see the power that people can get through the lens and, and it's weird because, uh, again, societally, everybody has a camera, but nobody's being seen and I think that it's weird, right?

It's super weird. It's weird too, you know, even I was talking to my team recently about our social media presence and I kind of just said, Hey guys, we're taking a pause. Yeah. Like we're pausing all of it because it's, it feels so gross to me right now. Even, even as a per, even the content we're putting out, I'm like, why are we doing this?

Gregory James Thelian: But it's something I've always struggled with, with social media because as soon as I get on it, I hate it. And this is why I really don't post that often, and it's hard for me to post because it does feel icky. It does feel like, I don't know. I never liked social media, so it's like if you go through all of my channels, it's all just business related and I'm working on making it better as much as I can. I do suffer from perfectionism, so it's always hard for me to put something out, but I'm looking to just get stuff out there that talks to people. That's what I'm looking to do now. And it's like once you kind of have that shift that that's really what it's about.

Michael Unbroken: That's what you do. And the reason I brought that up. And the reason I brought that up is because, is just to make a point that social media is not reality. It's not like no matter what. And I think that so many people, women, especially young girls, it's insane what I'm seeing happening right now, which is another reason I just don't want to be on social media. The glorification of children. It's, it's all a fucking nightmare to me. It is. But the way, but ultimately the way that I see it is like social media is not real.

It's just not real. None of it is. And you see so many people, they will tell you all their goodness, all the amazing things that they're doing, but they won't tell you how dark it is. Yeah. And that's the thing that pisses me off. Yeah. And, and so that's the thing though, as Americans, and I'll speak, I know people internationally that on a show, but as Americans we kind of leverage that and we get in this thing and then we start leveraging ourself.

And so you know, when I think about photography and, and the thing that you do, all of that was to say this, it's a great way for people to come back home to themselves because what a better home than the home that is the one that you're in, whether you like it or not. Yeah, exactly. And so you might as well find a way to love it, even if you don't whatever that route takes. And I know because I've seen it in your work. I've seen it in my work. I've seen the work of many photographers, my old work, I should say I've seen it, and also my current work, it's coming back home. 

Gregory James Thelian: It doesn't leave you to connect it because once again, this is the way that you see the world. So you are always gonna be capturing it that way. And this is what makes different artists different. It's the way that we see things. And you know, it's the same thing with tattoo artists or any type of artist. Everyone is different. Everyone sees things, everyone interprets things in different ways.

And I have the ability, thankfully, to kind of feel out my clients, learn about them and show them like all the beauty that's in them. And once again, that's just on the individual. So you do it your way. I do it my way, and other photographers do it in their ways. And that's just all that it is.

Michael Unbroken: Yeah. I love that man. I want people to feel empowered to reach out to you, to connect with you, to learn more. Before I ask you my last question, how can they do that?

Gregory James Thelian: Okay, so you could just simply go to gregoryjamesphotography.com. That's my main website. You could go to contact information and reach out to me directly.

I read all the emails that come directly through there. You could also schedule a phone call with me. So if anything that I said today hits you in any way, you know, if you feel what I'm talking about and what me and Michael were discussing here today, set up a phone call with me. It's free. 15 minutes, no worry. And I just wanna learn more about you. That's what it's all about.

Michael Unbroken: Yeah. Amazing. And look, as somebody who's been around for photography for 30 years, legitimately, I know the difference between someone who's good and good in intention and who's not. And I've been around many of them. And let me tell you that I wouldn't have. Greg on the show if I didn't think that he was a good one. Thank you. My last question for you, my friend, what does it mean to you to be unbroken?

Gregory James Thelian: Okay. So I love that you ask everybody this question and yes, I kind of was thinking about this a lot before we got on the episode today, but in all honesty, being unbroken to me really just means knowing, okay?

It means knowing that you are more than these broken pieces that you might feel like it's knowing that you're whole. It's knowing who you are at your core and knowing the essence of what really makes you, you. And. It's not just knowing what your passions are, but it's knowing what your purpose is in this life.

And once you have that knowledge, once you truly know that, and you kind of feel it like in your heart, you feel it deep down and you feel it in your bones, like nothing could make you feel broken again when you have that type of knowledge, you know, it could really, it just elevates you in so, so many different ways.

And it's also knowing that you're not alone in all of this. We're all going through shit like this, and it's knowing that it's okay to ask for help. So that's what being unbroken means to me. It's really just having that knowledge of who you are and living it.

Michael Unbroken: Beautifully said. And I think asking for help can be one of the most difficult things that we do, but it can also be the thing that changes your life. I said, thank you so much for being here, unbroken Nation. Thank you so much for having me, friends. Thank you for listening. Please share this with someone if it has impacted your life in any way 'cause remember, every time that you do, you're helping other people walk their path of being unbroken.

Take care of yourselves, take care of each other.

And Until Next Time.

My Friends, Be Unbroken.

I'll See Ya.